With Great Power - A Spider-man illustration

#1

Ok back again, becoming habit I guess lol. Hey guys, this submission was not accepted to the 2D gallery. Same unspecific reason as everyone else. It’s called “With Great Power” and this is the description…

“This is my take on Spider-man. I wanted to do my own version of him and keep the composition interesting. Also I put him in a pose that’s not usually seen. This would be the peak of him swinging upwards. The red lines on his suit are 3 spider legs with his arms representing the fourth. It’s the second in a series of superheros I’ve done, the first being Superman. I had some great anatomy reference for him and a few references of the buildings. I tried to keep the lighting dynamic and also create a screenshot or movie-still feel with it. This was all painted in Photoshop with no 3D or Photos used in the finished piece. Thanks guys!”

Hey Lunatiqueit looks like we’ll have more conversations, thanks for the help last time, it helped. I’m am still amazed at some of what makes it and what doesn’t, don’t see much consistency. I’m seeing many that have no description at all and even one that was recently accepted that was just a Color and ambient study, not even a finished piece. Again this is not 3D or photo-manipulation, all painted. Anyways would love some feedback, thanks!

#2

I agree with this inconsictency that you are mentioning, hence why I deleted my post in your previous thread cause I didn’t feel that I could stand by my previous post there. I have noticed it more now too since you posted your thread. Seems to me like the judges only judge by their own taste, and those who are known illustrators or concept art workers get their works posted in an instant…
I really don’t get upset about it though but it is a rather strange behaviour…

I think in your case here it could be that you have changed the original look of the spider costume, not sure though…
I must say I like this one, clearly not the usual composition that you usually see with spidey… :slight_smile:

#3

Hey Whom nice to hear from you again, thanks. You know I have a bit of a theory on some of this. The rejection email says they get hundreds of submissions, but if you notice only about 4 or 5 get accepted to the 2D gallery each day or so. I hope this isn’t the case but I have a feeling that if they get a really large amount of unjudged work that’s backed up, say over the weekend, that after they have chosen a few they just reject a large amount of the rest to clear up the line. And yes popular artists do get ushered to the front. If my theory isn’t true then I just think it’s poor or rushed judging in some instances. Maybe it just depends on who is judging that round…

#4

I would not have voted this image into the gallery either. It is amature as it expresses poor decisions and missed potential, in a big way. The way you cropped the figure is not interesting but disturbing as it reads like a forced/contrived attempt at some random, accidental, frozen frame action shot thing. Can you explain what you are trying to do with the odd subject cropping? It destroys the visual power of the silhouette and the potential of this being a nice example of dynamic figure work—if the anatomy and lighting were also addressed better. The rendering of the figure is simplistic, uninteresting and the anatomy looks wrong in places, as a result. The foreshorting of the arms looks as if the reference were shot with a long telephoto lens, while the legs look like they were shot with a shorter lens. Contrary to your description, the arms do not appear to represent the 4th set of the graphic spider’s legs. An illustration shouldn’t need a general textual explanation of what’s going on. It should be visually apparent.
The other thing that leaves me flat about this work is the “overexposed” nature of the sky lighting. I wouldn’t call that dynamic.

#5

Quadart thanks for your opinion but it’s far from amature. I think you kind of displayed a point that I’ve made before in recent threads. It’s how it’s interpreted. You can flip a coin and get a judge that sees it like yourself or one, who like many so far, really enjoy it. I have got a lot of support for this piece because of the look and change of composition. To you just a simple, boring, spiderman figue, in a typical pose is what you find “interesting” then that’s fine. I wasn’t looking to do an illustration that’s the same as everything else, same lighting that you always see, same composition. Many like this change, obviously some don’t. And what would you call dynamic lighting? high contrast, Rembrandt lighting, golden hour with a different color rimlight?. The type of lighting you see over and over. And also how is recreating the look of film or a screeshot forced/contrived? There seems to me a lot that you don’t find interesting or understand with it and I’m not going to go through each and give an explanation, and I don’t see the anatomy or lighting as being a problem in my opinion. My point is if you want the usual scenes there are tons of them. If that’s your thing then keep creating them.

#6

Regardless of what you say about this piece or attempted to do with it, your image speaks for itself and does so very clearly, without you. Everything you’ve done, and all of the decisions you made are clearly evident in the work in the capacity of their effectiveness or lack thereof. Unfortunately the things that could have been done to get the image into the gallery are not there in this work. Whether or not some ‘coin-tossing’ folks like the piece does not change the fact that it did not make it into the gallery, for obvious and quite objective reasons. It is, objectively, a weak piece, plain and simple.
If you put a little more work into this illustration you may be able to actualize some of the potential that’s there. You are quite capable of bettering this piece, as demonstrated by some of the work in your portfolio.

#7

You know I have had other pieces declined before, waited a bit then I submitted them again with no changes, and they’ve made it. that’s what I mean by coin toss. Right now even on the front page of the 2D gallery there is by far much weaker work. I don’t consider this piece weak but by just going on your critiques. Again thanks for the critique and help with it.

#8

Ok I made a small tweak to the perspective of the arm closest to camera. Submitted it and it got declined again in honestly less that 20 min. I’ve never seen a response to my submission that fast. I really think the concept and artwork is solid and so do many others I’ve talked to about it. Any suggestions? Do you guys honestly think this dose not deserve to be in the regular 2D gallery, especially with some of what is being accepted? I just can’t see this piece as being so bad as not to be accepted. I don’t like giving examples of work that I feel is of much less quality both in terms of concept and technique but just check whats up now, you’ll see them, it’s surprising.

#9

Hey amscime,

I think this piece is interesting, and I certainly don’t think its amateurish by any means. Was it completely hand painted? I think I like the overexposed sky…

Now, I can see some of the other points being made. While I enjoy the lighting (because it is different), it might be too distracting? Below the character it is somewhat dark, and above the character it is extremely bright - this might be the problem the other reviewer had with this piece.

I do completely agree with the cropping, though. Right now, you have spidey’s head, arm, and leg cut off - something which makes my eyes look right at it. Thus, it leads my eye toward the border, and out of your picture - making me awkwardly bring them back into the picture only to happen again twice. Could you pull your shot backward a bit?

I love the lighting, but the reviewer might be onto something in saying that it needs help. Especially if you consider that the “bright” sky is also hitting spidey on all sides, but it seems like he just has really strong backlighting. I would change the cropping immediately.

I really don’t think this is amateurish. I’ve seen amateurish, lol. Anyway, I would really like to see how this turns out! Even if you don’t do anything that I’ve suggested :slight_smile: Have fun and good luck getting submitted!!

#10

Why did you think that making an imperceptible change by just lengthening his left arm by 3% was going to change the status of this image? Were you trying to make some kind of point? Unfortunately you didn’t get the outcome you were planning.

You need to make the figure look as though he is moving forward and not in freefall, unconscious after being kicked in the face off of a building roof. I’d get his right arm away from his leg.
The buildings in the background look dilapidated and windowless, ready for demolition after decades of abandonment, in stark contrast to the clean wall I to the left. The perspective on them is distorted.
This image can use some dynamics on all levels, including some stylized exaggeration of the figure.

Here’s a little thumbnail quicky using your pixels to show some very rough suggestions.

#11

Thats cool looking, he looks shiny hehe. And no I’m not trying to make a point. I’m not trying to revolutionize anything here and get the “outcome that I was planning” I just want people to see it and enjoy it in the 2D gallery. You know worse pieces are being excepted. It seems the only way to make the judges happy is to go against my concept of the composition. And I appreciate you doing that thumb, but that’s what i was trying to avoid. I know some may like it better and that’s fine but I didn’t want to be typical, as “cool” as some people may think it is. Again thanks but I only have these problems in CGSociety. The judges, at least in 2D, go for more typical and generally don’t like concepts that some consider “artsy”.

#12

You know maybe I should have stressed more that this is part of a series, all superheros. It’s just a goofy idea I had. Have them in different compositions like this. I’ve only done 2 but maybe things may come across better as a whole? And No that question mark isn’t the Riddler lol, just have 2 so far…

#13

Bill already gave some excellent critique, so I don’t have much to add.

As for as the concept behind the series you’re working on, I already told you my opinion in your Superman thread–that the concept isn’t compelling and doesn’t really have a point in the first place, despite how you try to explain your attempt to do something different and unique. Different doesn’t automatically mean it’ll be great.

As a visual storyteller, you need to have a compelling theme worthy of exploring, and your idea of showing various superheroes with their heads cropped off, so that we only see their bodies, thus evoking some kind of resonance in our recognition of them as symbols, is a flawed one (IMO). It’s a moot point to be made, because the attempt to distill superheroes down to their symbolic significance has already been done to death in comic books–particular comic book cover illustrations. We can see this almost every month on at least one comic book cover that’s published, and there have been countless covers playing with this idea, and most are done much better, because the artist understands where the graphic power actually comes from, and that the real symbol here is the costume itself, regardless of who’s wearing it, or even if there’s a body to put it on.

Superhero’s costume hanging in a closet among mundane objects we’d see in any typical household, or discarded on the tiled bathroom floor amongst blood stains and bandages, or stuffed into a gym bag on top of the backseat of a car next to children’s stuffed animals, or hung on the back of a dining room chair with bills, bank statements, and junk mail–all of these are more emotionally/intellectually resonant approaches than what you’re doing with the purposely cropped off heads.

The challenge for intelligent storytellers, isn’t just finding a theme/motif, but also to execute/implement/convey the themes and motifs in ways that are compelling and thought-provoking.

With all that said, I personally would never reject a submission due to subject matter/style (unless it’s very offensive). I’m just sharing my point of view on what constitutes good visual storytelling, and I hope that despite your feelings of indignation, you can appreciate what I’m trying to explain to you (which I think will help you as a visual artist/storyteller in the long run).

#14

Again guys thanks for you help and input. You know Lunatique it’s funny you mention comic book covers. I’m not into comics too much so I didn’t know this was common but one thing I felt was “With type on these, they would make nice covers” lol. Anyways I’m done tinkering, it seems flaws are in the whole concept so i think ill just take it as not accepting, I appreciate your help but it’s difficult for me to change the whole concept. Honestly I get a lot of support with these on other sites and from fellow artists I know, Including legit comic book artists. And here is were I get the most criticism for these, not that i have a problem with it. But I think people expect a certain “feel” or “concept” that’s previlent in CGS. It will always be an ongoing issue here IMO of what makes it and what doesn’t. And even with things you guys have touched upon I still feel this should be included in the 2D gallery as is. There are much weaker pices that are shown. And I wouldn’t have an issue if it were just these but, no joke, the past 9 peices I have submitted have got rejected. And, minus the space scenes which I guess they don’t like no mater what, I resubmitted. Some were excepted the second time and some took multiple times, like Monk of Telrena. And I think the help with Superman got it excepted also.

#15

I kinda like it, I think he looks cooler than the spiderman in the movies. I just wish his whole arm was red or white like his eye.
and who cares about what gets accepted and rejected. ‘Art’ is a learning process and is about finding inspiration, not just any inspiration mind you, that is a philosophy in itself, so i’ll break away from it. Making characters that aren’t even yours should automatically not get you accepted since you didn’t even create spiderman, so good luck getting superman accepted. I just can’t understand how some people who don’t do original work get accepted into the gallery in the first place, i see a lot of that going around and I don’t like it.
As for the criticism you get for your pieces are the biggest reward in this site, not about an award that someone may or may not have deserved. Anyway, I like your piece, I used to and still read comics, and I think your piece is a pleasant surprise. It’s a bit of a change with inked and colored comics nowadays. And These movies ruined the concept of spideys costume so visually describing these characters in nice paintings is nice! So please if this is what your into, I for one enjoy seeing your work whether you do or don’t work for marvel.

#16

Hey RoundRobbin thanks! Yeah I see your point on “I just can’t understand how some people who don’t do original work get accepted into the gallery in the first place, i see a lot of that going around and I don’t like it.” but I think it just being “fan art” and that your not making money off of it it’s ok. I would totally agree on something like a straight copy of a scene or cover. These are the first fan art pieces I’ve done. I just wanted to put my own look and feel into something everyone is familiar with. And for “As for the criticism you get for your pieces are the biggest reward in this site, not about an award that someone may or may not have deserved.” your totally right. I’m not looking for an award by any means though, I just would like people to see it. The way CGSociety is structured is basically if it’s not in the basic 2D gallery it gets almost no exposure at all and on top of that you can’t even leave any critiques on it if it gets rejected. That’s just my basic issue I guess. on CGS if your art doesn’t make it to the galleries it’s almost pointless to have it in your portfolio.

#17

Than I suggest you make a petition in the suggestions forum. Other sites accept all kinds of work, but the highest views goes to those with the most votes or ‘editor’ picks and getting a reward on those sites is more rare because they give a weekly award, a monthly award, and even a yearly award, which makes a lot of sense. Maybe if a monthly award here was turned into the standard CGS award. More people would compete for a yearly CGS award if there was one. BUt I don’t like competition, i think it takes away from the principles that we need to learn for growth. Awards are just a nice way for people to tell you your going in the right direction and to keep it up.

If anything,
Make a suggestion to the admins if you want site changes, if not, it is what it is and just got to bear with it. We’re all guests here and need to humble ourselves in THEIR system.

#18

I’m going to be honest here amscime, I’m questioning why you are on here. Quadart and Lunatique have given you fantastic critiques and suggestions and you haven’t taken any of them. Your image looks exactly the same after 16 replies. No, you don’t have to take anyone’s suggestions, but every thing anyone has mentioned, you keep justifying or fighting it. You are obviously a talented artist, and I mean that - but do you think your art is perfect? I wonder why anyone who wouldn’t think that have so much trouble just even trying a few suggestions?

I am not a frequenter here, and I was excited to stumble on your post because it was a good piece to begin with, and I was hoping to see it get better…but sadly it has stayed the same. All I see is you complaining about how other artists got included into the gallery while yours did not.

Here’s a thought: if your art was flawless, it would have gotten accepted; no questions. Who cares if your art isn’t getting exposure on the site? Keep plugging it elsewhere. If you rely only on CGtalk as your professional stepping stone, you’re not going to have a very fruitful career.

Friend, you have talent. Imagine if this entire time, instead of you wasting it complaining how your piece wasn’t accepted into a website gallery, you would’ve been spending that energy on making the piece stronger while trying suggestions from a few fresh eyes? It would have rocked!

I’m not sorry if this is pissing you off. I’m sorry that you are wasting your talent complaining instead of improving.

#19

OK. First, if you look at other threads I’ve posted onWIP I have made changes on art. And second just becaus i dont change the piece doesn’t mean I don’t respect and truly appreciate the critiques. I hate when people think that I feel my work is perfect, its a very simplest and not well thought out opinion. Like I said way back in this thread I’m going to take this for what it is as rejected. But I’m still going to respond to posts. Trust me I don’t have a problem with changing my art but if people are going to still post about the piece then I’m going to post also, obviously. And I like the artist on CGS which is why I’m more passionate about getting art seen on this site. I’m not trying to complain but the points in my posts here are addressing things that have been asked, said or assumed. Some of it a bit repeated probably but the only critiques are from quandary and lunatique and most posts are just responses to responses, that’s kind of what’s been driving this thread and why its up this many replies. OK so let me say this then. I always appreciate the critiques, good and bad. You guys take time out with these and I think that’s awesome, really. But, like I said before, I’m just taking it as rejected. Many of the critiques I will apply in future wok but for this one I’m just putting it behind me. So thanks guys for the help and debates, I definitely learn and grow from it. Sorry this seems like complaining i wasnt intending too. I think this post got a bit heated on both sides. But as artists we are also philosophers and are.drawn to discutions and thinking. Also I’m sure this post is full of typos but its off my phone lol.

#20

Yea maan you should definetely make a series as in your picture in the same composition, Batman would be awesome in a similar color theme. :slight_smile: