wip (learning matte-painting) ..

#1

Hi, I am new to matte-painting, and - as for the m-p process/workflow - I am still kind of lost a bit, so far …

      I have studied a few tutorials,  been reading and watching some training materials and videos - 
   but - that bunch of different (sometimes very different, almost opposite) information I had come across is a bit confusing to me ..  so - as a result - I still have only a vague idea of what the "correct" matte-painting process in general is supposed to look like (if there are any such rules)  ..  
      
      So I decided to start some matte-painting myself, and post it here as w.i.p, to hopefully get some basic guidance to help me out to understand the process better, if possible  .. 
      
      Each time I see any matte-painting, a lot of more or less fundamental questions come to my mind - 
      [i](there are really many of them - so - I am not posting them all here;      just a few examples - like - what do matte-painters usually start with? is it an idea, that has to come first? or - is photo-resources gathering the first necessary step usually? do matte-painters care about photo-resources at first stages at all? or - what is an initial sketch in general supposed to look like? are matte-painters (for whatever reason) supposed to produce "readable", nice and clean sketches? .. and so on .. - 
      [/i]
      - actually - I do not really expect anyone here giving me such a complex "lecture" of matte-painting fundamentals;        
 I am just mentioning a few of  those "newbie" questions for a case someone (who is making basic matte-tutorials, for example) might perhaps be interested in what kind of basic info some matte-beginners may perhaps also be looking for .. :) 
      
...
      Here´s a w.i.p that I tried to paint - a matte based on a Prague shot I took at sunset against the sun; It´s only a few early stages, but - since I am not that much sure of whether the process I started is ok, or if I made some mistakes - I am posting what I got by now  .. 
      
      In case I am wrong in whatever I did, pls feel free to crit/comment, 
      I would appreciate that.
      
      Here´s the steps .. 
      
      Original plate/photo:
      [img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/01prague_01.jpg[/img]
      
      Extending the plate + sketching down the first idea ..
      [img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/01prague_01b_sun.jpg[/img]
      .. after I extended the plate I realized I did not like the sun, that got right in the middle of the image, so I decided to move it a bit to the right in the next step .. 
      (also added some first rough shapes for distant buildings and added some details to the banks of the newly defined "river" ..)
      [img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/01prague_08_sun_moved.jpg[/img]
      
      +  added some more detailed structures here and there, but was not sure about the empty area to the right of a river, so I also added "something big" there - a huge vertical building (no particular idea of what this could be, so far) ... 
      [img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/01prague_11.jpg[/img]
      .. but I did not like it, so tried out another version instead - 
      since I better liked a more "open" view, more like kind of wide-camera shot + a bit more light and sctucture at  the right side .. 
      [img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/01prague_12.jpg[/img]

(at this stage the concept is pretty rough, and my sketching not very consistent, is it?)

      + incl. a *gif animation, it just better shows the steps .. 
      [img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/01prague_animace_700px.gif[/img]
      
      Thanks for watching,
      sorry for such a huge post,
      a.
#2

In regards to the start of a MP, that depends on it’s type. There are basically two ‘types’ (some may not agree with me but this is my view):

  1. There’s the establishing shot where you ussualy start from a concept and build up an epic vista (but not only) which later on is projected

  2. There’s the invisible matte painting which works with a plate and modifies it (set extension), there you ussualy work only with reference.

#3

I’m just a seasoned mattepainting forum lurker, but I think that the basic idea that I’ve got, is that the procedure is anything that gets the job done with in the schedule, budget and quality wanted. :rolleyes:

That “exact procedure” may also change depending the rest of the process - consept/3d artist may have consepts almost ready just to add details and textures, compositor may want the painting ripped in certain layers or someone need certain photo to be used etc.

Imho sketching is encouraged at least for two reasons:

  • development of the image can be followed and changes made at the consept/sketching phase

  • you are not limited by the photo reference you may have

When doing personal work and there are not limits or needs set by outsiders, I think your process looks fine and your sketching is awesome with exact colors already.

And when in real mattepainting work you just add couple of important steps:

1st you take the studio helicopter and fly to some nice and warm places take some beatiful references you may need… :smiley:

#4

Tiberius, thanks!
I was trying out the method of creating a matte-painting (“painting”??) using only reference photos too (incorporating photos straight away, no sketching) - and - I learned (if I understood well) that good reference photos are a must (or at least a real treasure) for a matte-painter, is that right … ??

  [b]Matti/halen[/b], hi! 
  (I was wondering whether you were the same "halen" as at mattepainting.org .. ), thanks for dropping in here, too :)
  and thanks for your info, 
  glad for any bit of it .. 
  
  (the helicopter ..well, yes, good idea, I´ll possibly get one to my studio  :) )   
  
  
  ...
  I had no time to work on my matte-painting since my last visit, but - until I can proceed, I decided to post a few more/other concepts I did last time (I did more of them, just did not post them here, as I thought they were a bit too loose/sketchy) .. 
  now, after I got some feedback here or at other forums too, I know that I should probably do my sketching a bit more "readable"; 
 I´ll definitelly try out next time;
  
  until then - here are a few more concepts 
  (same original photo, just a few more or less visible differences of the scene) ..  
  [img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/02_01_srovnani_600px.jpg[/img]
  
  a larger version of the 3rd one
  [img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/02_02_Ic_last_stage_so_far_1000px.jpg[/img]
  (its really a rough sketch, the shapes and transitions in between them are not solved out yet, since it is just very early stage, kind of just "idea" capturing, more then a "nice and clean" sketch to show to the client .. so far;

hopefully you wont´get entirelly lost in the image … )

  [img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/02_03_animace_druha_400px.gif[/img]
  
  here are (animated) some further changes I did ..

(just to illustrate the process I am trying to grasp, somehow … )
I did not like the composition very much,
so I did a few pretty fundamental changes to the concept, in the end …

  and also tried a different version .. 
  [img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/02_05_II_srovnani%20predxpo_600px.jpg[/img]
  
  [img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/02_07_II_animace_480px.gif[/img]
  
  thanks for watching /any comment&crit, 
  a.
#5

I think you have posted in wrong section, this looks more like concept art/speed painting

M

#6

Hi Mateja,
true, these look like concepts/speedpaintings (as they really are), since I thought I´d perhaps do some pre-vis first …
I have no idea, how other matte-painters work, or - what a matte-painter is supposed to do first, what next … I really would like to know, but I just don´t (which is btw why I thouthgt matte-painting forum would be fine to hopefully get a chance to learn a bit more about the process … )

thanks for pointing that out, anyway,
looks like I - obviously - did not choose the right approach to start with, so far …
a.

ok, decided to start another - a little bit less ambitous one …(trying to modify just a part of a sceene, not the whole one …)
a.

or perhaps I´d like to try out this one, if I´l be able to …
(wip pre-vis, very rough, not realistic really at the moment, just an idea …)

#7

Here is link(on same forum few links below your post) by Suirebit who explained technique common for matte painting job.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=196&t=804017

take a look at this

M

#8

looks like I - obviously - did not choose the right approach to start with, so far …

Well, I’m new here and don’t know about this section of the forum if it is for WIP or not, but you titled the thread as “WIP” so I don’t see the problem.

So far I think your approach and process are fine. Now just pic a couple of your interesting concepts and push em to matte paintings. :hmm:

My pic might be option c with b’s colors. Like the cooler colors of first ones and the compositon of option c. The other ones are nice too. Just do it. :smiley:

#9

Here is link(on same forum few links below your post) by Suirebit who explained technique common for matte painting job.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthr…?f=196&t=804017

take a look at this

It’s a fine tut and also a reality check for junior post. No epic establishing shots, but this tut falls to the 2nd category Suirebit mentioned earlier in this thread. The other part is to do things that can’t just be patched with clone stamp and some reference photo you happen to have. :curious:

#10

Mateja, yes, thanks, been there already … (and - looking forward to the next one, whatever Tiberius/Suirebit may write about :slight_smile: )

Matti/halen, thanks!
and - well - the C variant :slight_smile: hopefuly some day I´ll do this one too, but - for now -
I have chosen another - easier - one, and finally pushed it a bit further …

…
here´s what I got so far, still wip …
thanks for any c&c,
a.

#11

… update, the process (gif animation),
just a record (briefly) of what I did so far …
a.

[img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/05_stages_wip_400px.gif[/img]

[img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/05_srovnani_wip_800ps_fixed.jpg[/img]
#12

Thanks for sharing Alena, this is really interesting :thumbsup:

#13

Thanks, Valentina!

    ..
    update, a few thumbnail sketches - 
    its nothing in there,  actually, 
  just a test, some  simple atmospheric-perspective studies ..

thanks for watching,
a.

    [img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/06_test03_simple2.jpg[/img]
    
    [img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/06_atm_test3.jpg[/img]
    
    [img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/06_studie_atmospheric1.jpg[/img]
#14

Nice going, I would love to see one of your first concepts completed. They were starting to look pretty sweet.

#15

scrawford, thanks!
I am planning to complete some of those,
but - I want to get some practice first, to get used to this type of paintings a bit more (I never specialized in matte- nor environment before, and still not feeling very comfortable with the technique I use so far … hopefully I´ll find some that might hopefully work for me/for the image of this kind … :slight_smile: )
a.

 ...
 update, 
a day-into-night practice .. 
 [img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/20_night_srovnani.jpg[/img]
 
 and also did a few simple matte-concepts
 (trying to keep the concepts a bit more cleaner, avoiding those messy sketching-lines of mine this time ..)
 those are more speedpaints, each one took only some 15 or 20 minutes to sketch, no detail - some are really very rough, 
 just tried to suggest a new scene;
[img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/20_lidi_srovnani.jpg[/img]
 
 
 [img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/20_cosi_srovnani.jpg[/img]
 
 
 [img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/20_PC033120_srovnani.jpg[/img]
 
 
 [img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/20_Dancing_House_srovnani.jpg[/img]
 
 
 and also did some values-testing
 (here I only used simple geometric-shaped brushes, 
 did not try to achieve photo-realism details here)
 [img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/20_brushes_simple_sunset.jpg[/img]
 
 [img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/20_brushes_test%20kopie.jpg[/img]
 
 (incl. this one, that I did earlier)
 [img]http://www.ahdesign.cz/images2009/000_wip/20_treasure%20entrance_test.jpg[/img]
#16

… forgot to post,
a bit more photo-realistic exercise,
painted from scratch in PS (about 4 simple brushes used),
a.

#17

I feel that those latest ones are the strongest by far.
keep it up :slight_smile:

#18

nice sketch. If there’s any doubt in your mind that what you’re seeing isn’t real then it doesn’t succeed as a matte painting. Remember if you can tell its a matte painting, then it doesnt work as one. A matte painting should be invisible as a painting and photorealistic to match the plate been used. Everything you’ve posted so far falls under concept/sketch.

I understand you’re still learning, one of the first lessons been; what a matte painting is and isn’t :slight_smile:

Try something simple, like a set extension, lose the Dylan Cole inspired landscapes and work on something more grounded to reality.

Dave.

#19

Simon/Cyberone, thanks :slight_smile:

Dave, thanks -
ok, the very first lesson seems to be the most difficult one :slight_smile:
(though having followed many - really long - discussion threads concerning what matte painting is and what isn´t, even though matte-painters themselves were posting their different definitions, I don´t feel like I am any clever about this :slight_smile: )
anyway, thanks a lot for your comment,
sounds clear …
a.

ok, some set-extensions …
(there are still - for sure - issues that might need to be fixed,
did not want to spend too much time on this,
just testing if/how things may go together, for now … )

photos (their parts) used

painted details

making-of *gif animation (simplified)

another one …

making-of *gif animation (simplified)

another, a bit more simple one …

#20

… tried out a landscape-matte
(worked in low-res, perhaps I should have worked with larger image … ??)

making-of *gif animation

a painting clouds study (PS)

thanks for visiting,
a.