Theoretical SUB-D

#701

Mind if i change a the subject a bit?

I had a question, do any modelers here like to model with meshsmooth applied, and go down to the sub-object level of your choice, then use show end result? so you can see your low-poly ‘cage’ and in real time model and see your results??

Also is there another way ,besides instancing, to have your high-poly model beside your low-poly cage. model on your fave sub-object lvl and have it update in real time to the left or right of your cage?? that way your cage and meshsmoothed version dont get all tangled and hard to see…

last, what scripts does everyone here use? i just got cspolytools, took some advice from a modeler that sub-ds a lot. i am running meshtools also but i think max 5 has all those tools already, someone plz correct me if i am wrong…

i probably could have asked this else where, but i was hoping to get the “sub-d” fans if you will.

thanks guys

-Strang

#702

Originally posted by Strang
I had a question, do any modelers here like to model with meshsmooth applied, and go down to the sub-object level of your choice, then use show end result? so you can see your low-poly ‘cage’ and in real time model and see your results??

Yep, now and then. If I need to tweak a curved surface I usually do that with show end result on. There are scripts so you can bind it to a key and toggle it on and off easier :slight_smile:

Also is there another way ,besides instancing, to have your high-poly model beside your low-poly cage. model on your fave sub-object lvl and have it update in real time to the left or right of your cage?? that way your cage and meshsmoothed version dont get all tangled and hard to see…

Depending on your object, you can model half, and use a mirrored reference with a meshsmooth to see how it will look. Important to use reference and not instance. I have a tendency to have the character I’m working on to the right, then have a copy of the bodypart I’m working on a little to the side as an instance. For example, working on arms, you can detach the arm from the body, make an instance and place it so it’s easier to model for you.

If you model with the arms at a 45 degree angle for skinning later, you have to struggle with not being able to use x/y/z constraints since the arm is rotated. Detach the arm and make an instance, rotate it so that it’s aligned to x/y/z and model on that instead. Since it’s an instance, you can see how the whole char will look :slight_smile: Clever use of referencing helps too if you want to mesh smooth one part and not the other.

last, what scripts does everyone here use? i just got cspolytools, took some advice from a modeler that sub-ds a lot. i am running meshtools also but i think max 5 has all those tools already, someone plz correct me if i am wrong…

Well, there’s that show end result script, and max 5 comes with meshtools 3 on cd2, then there’s cspoly tools, some of bobos tools comes in handy now and then, an updated layermanager and some cool polysculpt tools from herman saksono aka hormon ( http://maxres.cgworks.com ) and the solidify modifier. There are more, but these are the ones I can think of now…

#703

thanks a lot urgaffel, i checked hormon out, been playing with other tools at the moment, i will check out bobo’s stuff.

instanceing and refrencing, i will make sure i use them appropriately.

thanks again

-Strang

#704

I dont think cspolytools [well make poly from selected verts is the only one I use],
I dont think it works with meshtools 3 :confused:

I’m not sure what i’m missing out on
:shrug:

#705

Well, then, you’d better be using Meshtools 2.5! There’s really no reason to use meshtools 3. CSPolytools kicks a significant amount of ass. The “untangle selected poly” is totally awsome for converting polgons to perfect circles. Good stuff. “Chamfer while leaving original edges” also rocks.

-3DZ

:smiley:

#706

yeah I probubly should use them too
:shrug: :thumbsup:

#707

CsPolytools works with meshtools 3. Meshtools 3 are somewhat updated from 2.5, and some of the tools that are part of max5 are removed. So there’s no reason not to use Meshtools 3… I think… :slight_smile:

edit

Yep, I’m using both cspolytools and meshtools 3.

#708

Simon, you can just install meshtools 2.5(instead of 3), and then CSpoly will work fine… well the features I use do:thumbsup:

#709

I’d like to get back to the topic on the new primitive that 3DZealot came up with. What would one’s workflow be like when using that primitive? I mean, usually I will “box-model” a head to flesh out the volume then cut, extrude, move verts, etc. to create the details. It would seem that edgeloops might be tougher to achieve when having to create eye sockets, nostrils, ears, and mouth all separate and then having to connect them back into a single mesh. I’m just looking for input from those who have created a nice head model utilizing the “3DZealot primitive”.

Sorry if this question already came up on this thread. I didn’t have time to go through all 48 pages.

Jim

#710

For that to work, you need to really know where you’re going with it… A good example of modeling things separately and then attaching is the Joan Of Arc tutorial. He creates the eyesocket first, then the mouth and then the rest in between (so to speak…) It’s some time since I had a look at it, but I think that’s more or less what he did. Seriously though, check it out, it’s a good tut (except for the steps that they forgot to show and/or write down :))

#711

Sorry to revive this thread, but it appears to be where this question belongs. I believe I understand the basics of the examples shown dealing with edgeloops and control edges for defining sharp creases in a mesh. However, most of these examples are using a ‘whole’ object (cubes, heads, etc.) for the selecting of loops and such. How does one use the techniques here for symmetrical models where you plan to model half, then use Symmetry/Mirror and welding to hook it back together (ie., a car)? It seems like this would prevent the use of selecting edgeloops and the like…

#712

It works as usual. Only difference is that the mirrored/instanced/symmetrified (new word!) part of the mesh won’t be selected, but it will still be affected by changes. Just go about your business as usual.

For example, if you’re using Symmetry, you can turn on “Show End Result” and see what happens. Using mirror/instance/symmetry won’t stop you from using the usual techniques.

#713

good timing that this made it back to the front page, so i can post my unhelpful fanboy post without resurrecting the thread for no reason :smiley:

i learned SO MUCH from reading this! i’ve been picking away at this thread over a period of a few weeks, and i’m really glad i read through it all. i’ve saved tons of helpful images and produced lots of little max files to try and reproduce the results in the examples.

i also finally got around to installing solidify and cspolytools as a result of this thread, which i can tell already will become a big part of my workflow.

i’m wracking my brain trying to think of something cool i can contribute to this conversation but to be honest i don’t know all that much yet. it’s great to see threads like this though, it encourages us all to share knowledge when we get the chance, and really is great for the community.

anyways enough blubbering, i’ll continue to keep my eye out for threads like this and contribute to this one in any way i can.

thanks 3dz, urg, celtic, tony, chin, everybody!

jum:D

#714

I agree with you guys, this thread needs to keep going! We have all learned a great deal from it, but there is so much more to be shared, it makes the head spin.

This is the highest regarded thread on the internet for sub-D modeling in MAX, lets keep it that way!

Great thread and a great bunch of people who have participated in helping others to help themselves!

Tony

#715

heej… yea… the thread rulez… in the beginning i was all over here, but now im not so much into the thread or any other…

really bad :S

so is the rest i think… dont see people posting, maybe some dont know what to ad, but i know some stuff… anatomy is not an issue and is widely discussed allready ,so lets drop that…

but how about robotic stuff, technical form… so especially… like motor block and robots… ( i could say cars , but they are fairly simple compared to modelling a robot or engine)

just how to get those difficult shapes… and when do you fuse objects to one object…

sometimes things aint good to get modelled so for example you connect a sphere to a block, and tadaa your ready… but when do you do such thing… and is it bad to let different meshes intersect to be showen as one…

lets show our technical meshes and how we made them… i dont have anything yet and cant contribute now, im at school :frowning:

  • and done with no plugins , so no power boolean etc*
#716

3DZealot

isnt it about time u made a nice modelling video tut?

#717

just a small question here

Is it right to create edge loops with the slice modifier?

i used it a lot of times, but it seems to crash max pretty often.

#718

zukezuko:

I honestly don’t use slice at all. Have you been using Max 5.1 or Max 4 with meshtools 2.5? If so, you should probably be using the “connect” function instead. Cuts are usually fine, but slice has it’s problems. I believe there is an updated version of the slice tool floating around here somewhere. I’ll look into and get back to you.

-3DZ

:smiley:

#719

thank you all so very much for these wonderful posts on sub-ds! I shall find it very useful to me in the years to come!

#720

I try to stay away from SLICE also unless need a specific slice line. I have Select Ring, Select Loop and Connect shortcutted to Alt+D, F & Z respectively so making edgeloops is really a breeze.