Son of krypton

#1

Hey guys. This piece got rejected from the 2D gallery with the following reason: " Your image currently does not meet the general quality level of the Showcase Gallery. There could be a number of different reasons, but generally, images are rejected due to artistic or technical problems." This seems to be happening with almost each one of my illustrations.

This is the description that went with it: “With this I wanted to do an iconic character but with a different and unique composition, you don’t need to see his face to know who it is. So I decided to do Superman and have the focus be on the S, and put him in an iconic pose. Also i realized that I have no fan or hero art so I figured I should do one. I wanted to put my own spin on him with a new color pattern and some design tweaks from the original. The symbol in his belt represents the sun Rao, His home planet Krypton and it’s two moons. Anyways I hope you guys enjoy it. This may become a part of a series, thinking of doing Spiderman next. Same way, iconic pose and actions but with the head out of the composition. This was all painted in Photoshop. Thanks!”

So overall not sure why this got declined. There are many other superman pieces in the 2D gallery and this piece is all painted in Photoshop, no 3D or photography at all, but a small feeling tells me that some judges think it may be 3D and don’t believe me. Some of my friends thought it was 3D. I don’t understand the judging sometimes. They still let underdeveloped and low quality work be displayed all the time. Anyways what do you guys think? what should be done to it ect. Thanks again!

#2

I’ve seen one of your previously rejected pieces (the old man) and I personally would have accepted it. But in this particular case, I do see some glaring problems.

-His trapezius muscles are completely misshapen. You need to study how trapezius muscles really look in terms of overall proportion to the neck and head. If you actually tried to “draw through” (which means to actually draw the areas that goes beyond the border of the image) and draw his head while trying to connect his head to the neck, you’ll see just how ridiculous the trapezius muscles look.

-His left thumb looks stubby instead of foreshortened.

-His deltoid/bicep areas also look a bit off–the general proportions are a little bit too thick for this body. You also need to clarify your understanding of how the bicep is really connected to the arm bit area (especially in his right arm).

-The overall composition just isn’t very interesting logically or artistically. In what way did you think cutting off his head and tip of his toes would be artistically interesting? Can you actually articulate what makes such an approach interesting? What kind of psychological, emotional, or narrative effect does it achieve? If you aren’t sure, then it would seem more like a gimmick than an artistic statement.

#3

The reason for the composition is explained in my description, I just wanted to do something different and unique. It’s going to end up as part of a series hopefully of the recognition of iconic chanters through their symbols or other aspect, not their face. Many other people who have seen this like the composition. As for the traps, it’s superman, and intended to have his muscle over exaggerated. It was meant to have a slight mix of the outrageous muscles in comics but with a technical approach to realism. And I understand it’s not perfect but for critiques on things looking “a bit off” is not a reason in my opinion for not being excepeted especially if pieces like these have been accepted

#4

Please read this thread: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=31&t=1045027

And no, the fact he’s Superman does not change anything regarding basic anatomy. Why don’t you try what I suggest–draw through and actually try and add a head to that neck and then post the results. You’ll find that if you don’t alter the traps when you draw through, it’s going to look very, very odd. Just try it and you’ll see.

As for your reasons for the composition, IMO, it’s not a compelling enough reason. If that was the reason, a simple S logo of his chest would much better convey your artistic intentions, as the logo is truly what identifies him, and the graphic design quality of it is what makes the artistic statement.

The other Superman piece you linked to–I never voted on that piece and never even saw it in the cue. Other judges voted it through. When was that piece posted in the gallery? If it’s an older piece, then you need to know that the gallery standards has been rising steadily in the last several months. If it’s a newer piece, then I would scratch my head with you, as I would have rejected the piece (no offense to the artist–just being honest).

#5

Yeah that link is helpfull thanks Lunatique. I’ll rework the anatomy some more. And I think that piece is older. I still want to old off on the head because that is going to be a reoccurring theme in the series, Spidy is probably going to be next. and when you say “You also need to clarify your understanding of how the bicep is really connected to the arm bit area (especially in his right arm).” Is that our right or his right? thanks again!

#6

Ok did some tweaks on the anatomy. let me know what you guys think…

#7

I meant his right arm.

The attached thumbnails are a couple of example quickie extensions to show how a draw-through would look like based on your current version, and one where I made the traps even smaller.

The thing about Superman, is that he’s never been the hulking, monstrous bodybuilder type. He’s always been muscular, but very proportioned. His traps should not be so massive, because part of Superman’s physique is a sense of regal, gracefulness. If he’s just a muscle-necked brute, he would have a very different vibe.

These photos are closer to what Superman’s physique ought to look like:
http://muscleshots.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/mystery41.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_NC5846yjURg/TBkU40VaLeI/AAAAAAAAB_c/-50LsfB5-zk/s1600/TylerDavin1.jpg
http://oi720110101171747-7597224.webstarts.com/uploads/max_muscle_builder_pic.jpg

And when you look at a cross-section of bodybuilders, you’ll see that even the hulking monster types have traps that although are bulging, they do not shape like how you depicted them originally–they don’t rise up that high where they connect to the neck at the top:
https://www.google.com/search?q=superman&oe=utf-8&aq=t&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=ZIbqT_vyEMTW2gWQxqnNAQ&biw=950&bih=903&sei=aIbqT978Eqqi2QXRwrDeAQ#um=1&hl=en&safe=off&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=bodybuilder+trapezius+muscle&oq=bodybuilder+trapezius+muscle&gs_l=img.3...10074.12418.2.12781.14.13.1.0.0.6.222.1752.0j12j1.13.0...0.0.X_Bv1hdlgL4&pbx=1&fp=1&biw=950&bih=903&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&cad=b&sei=AorqT7u8JYPg2gWYrtG8AQ

And with that said, if you go back and look at your original version, you’ll see just how massive and distorted the traps look.

#8

I feel thumbs still need adjustment. The left still looks to short. The right has an odd shape to it. I like the neck but it is kind of reminding of Chet Zar.

#9

Hey Lunatique thanks for going so far with this man! I’ve tweaked a bit more and came to a better result. I’ve added a bit of the lower head to the scene. I also realized that I think a big part of the problem wasn’t just and so much the proportion but the definition in his neck. I’ve softened it up a bit so it doesn’t look like he’s flexing. Also widened the base of his actual neck. I still want to keep him a bit bulky though, If I were to reimagin superman I would have him with a physique that’s pretty large and powerful looking Overall I like how this affected the composition for the better and I’m happy were it is. I need to start on the others lol. Your thoughts?

#10

The traps still look really high–where the top of the “triangle” connects to the neck. Even in really muscular guys, traps don’t rise up that high, and the more muscular the guy is, the more bulging the traps are, but they bulge in the bottom and middle, and the muscle itself doesn’t reach high up forming an almost equilateral triangle like you have it. The attached thumbnail shows what I mean.

In terms of the idea behind the image (or the series you’re working on), there’s a major problem with the concept itself. I mentioned before that if your entire theme/motif is about iconic symbolism, then the logos of the superheroes’ costumes will do a much better job conveying that concept. The reason why the concept is flawed to begin with, is that some superheroes have masks anyway, so whether you show the faces or not, it sort of negates the point you’re making by hiding their faces. Also, it’s never really the faces of the heroes we identify with–it’s the costumes. We can changes the faces but if the costume is worn, then we see the hero. So maybe the series ought to portray these superhero costumes–laid out on a bed, or hung on the back of a chair, or on the top of a pile of laundry, or hanging in a closet. Sort of demystify the costumes and show them like any other piece of clothing, but the fact we recognize the costumes gives them the power we associate with them.

I think as a visual storyteller/illustrator, the concepts behind the images are just as important, and like any storytelling or conceptual art (not to be confused with concept art for film/games), the core of your idea has to be convincing and effective, making an intellectual/emotional/narrative point that is succinct and persuasive.

Anyway, that’s my 2 cents on the idea behind the image. I don’t know if this is a series for a client, or purely for yourself. If it’s for yourself, you may want to give it some more thought–what it is exactly that is the motivation/inspiration behind the idea, and whether there’s a better way to convey your idea.

#11

Well thanks again. I think this is final for me. I’m using the artistic license rout to give him a bit of the extreme, similar to how it is in comics. And for the concept, I have gotten a lot of support from fellow artists for it. even fellow comic book artists who find this a fresh take and an interesting composition, not the norm of him with closed fists, stern face, cape blowing sideways. Many like the mysticism behind it. And it’s not just hiding their faces it having most or all of the head cut off of the composition. It’s unfortunate that a judge may dismiss a piece because of their feelings on the concept, since that is very subjective, and because of that look over many of the positives. I know we have been going back and forth on minor anatomy changes and such but i still hold my ground on saying that I feel even these changes shouldn’t of warranted it for being declined. Not that I am full of my work but just by viewing others that have been excepted. Just my opinion is that CGSociety needs a constant panel of the same judges, not running it by those who have the time to look at the pieces. It has been featured on other sites with positive feedback so i am going to try again here, I hope people get a chance to see it. It’s unfortunate that I feel if a piece doesn’t make it at least to the 2D gallery then it’s almost pointless to have in your portfolio. By the way CGS is structured, It gets little exposure there and can’t get any feedback at all. Anyways I really appreciate you keeping up with this, thanks man!

#12

Generally speaking, judges don’t reject images based on subject matter or style, even if it might be overly controversial, trite, boring, crude, or whatever. As long as it’s not outright offensive, we try to allow as much creative freedom as possible. Judges are supposed to judge solely on artistic and technical merit.

In this specific case, I think it was probably the monstrous trapezius muscles that was the main culprit, though I cannot speak for the other judges on why they voted against the image. IMO, that specific anatomy issue is severe enough to warrant a rejection (it goes way past artistic license and is firmly into the realm of glaring mistake). Like I said, if you tried to take the original rejected version and extend the top to show the head, it’ll be painfully obvious how monstrously wrong those trap muscles were. I could do a quick extension using the original version to demonstrate this to you, but I think you know already. The newest update you posted looks far better in comparison–a drastic difference.

The judging panel needs to be revamped, and I’ve been pushing them to take my suggestions and implement them into a new system. But CGSociety usually have far more pressing matters to take care of, such as restructuring the entire forum framework, adding new features, fixing current bugs, and so on. They also happen to have just lost their IT manager, so they’re looking for a replacement at the moment.

One of your concerns–that without getting into the Showcase Gallery, a piece may not get any attention–is something CGS has been planning to address, wanting to adopt perhaps a spotlighting system where mods will simply choose to spotlight any works that they feel deserves more attention, while another section will simply display any new images that’s been uploaded by members. It’s been discussed behind the scenes but no idea if/when it’ll be implemented.

#13

Ah nevermind, maybe I should just zip it…

#14

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.