Sketchbook Thread of Erich Schreiner

#21

Rubens? He rocks. Great to see Master Studies. More, please. :thumbsup:

#22

nope, sorryā€¦itā€™s Giovanni Batista.

Next try :slight_smile: (i messed up one legā€¦and one figure is missing)

and two speedies

#23

Nice hatchmark shading that you have going on.
Keep up the good work.

#24

nope, sorryā€¦itā€™s Giovanni Batista.

Whoops, missed on that one! :scream: Whoever it is, glad to see your copies and quick sketches. In your fast sketches, I would go for even looser, less representational lines at first. Try to catpure the essence and feel of the pose as much as the realistic depiction of it.

I posted this on the Beginnerā€™s Lounge thread as an example of a good Gesture Drawing, and Iā€™ll post it here also:

[left]Have you ever used charcoal pencils before? I think they are great for using on newsprint (large format) to really get sweeping lines into oneā€™s drawings.

Cheers, :slight_smile:

~Rk
[/left]

#25

Erich,

I donā€™t know if you have or have not seen this thread, but I think it would be a useful one to take a look at, at least the first several posts, which contain the tutorial:
REBECCA KIMMELā€™S Anatomy Review 002: OPPOSING CURVES

This is a tutorial which was run on the Anatomy Forum in July, so it will not show up unless you change the settings at the bottom of the screen to show all threads From the ā€œBeginningā€. It is also linked permanently in the:

Tutorials, Workshops, Anatomy Reviews & More ā€¦ [links within]

Sticky Thread at the top of the Forum.

Here is the 1st post from that tutorial which I think would be of the most interest to you, containing the tutorial only, and not everyoneā€™s posts:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2436712&postcount=1

Check it out, and let me know what you think. :slight_smile:

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

#26

@pushav

thx

@Rebecca
yeah i already read the tut, but i thought this would be step two, after the gesture drawing.
so if i got it right, you first make the gesture drawing, then opposing curves, then shading.

now do you measure (at least a bit) while you make the gesture drawing? because if thatā€™s proportionally not right, you have to correct it afterwards, and then it might become more stiff again, doesnā€™t it?
Or in other words: how do i connect the gesture-phase and the what-we-did-in-the-workshop-thing best?

#27

tried some speedies again. and i think to see some progress at the bottom of No3 and the entire No4, but itā€™s not stylized enough.

#28

another bunchā€¦still not stylized enough. what do you think rebecca?

#29

Erich,

A book which I would recommend for you is ā€œThe Vilppu Drawing Manualā€ by Glenn Vilppu. He has taught animators for years.

Here are some examples of his work:


http://mag.awn.com/issue4.03/4.03images/4.03vilppu_03.jpg


http://www.prosketch.com/welcome_folder/sketchpad_folder/artschool_folder/books/Vilppu1.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/some_guy/305-Vilppu.jpg


http://www.artistravel.com/images/TEACHERS_PICS/GLENN_VILPPUS_PICS/VIL_PIC_6.JPG


http://www.nic-rad.com/ca/boxes2.jpg


http://www.nic-rad.com/ca/boxes.jpg
[left]
Will post some more thoughts soon. :slight_smile:

Cheers,

~Rebecca
[/left]

#30

Erich,

I have this book. If you would like to get it, I can work with you through the exercises. It might be good practice for me, too. :slight_smile:

Cheers,

~Rk

#31

thx rebecca, looks great and has a lot of good critiquesā€¦so goodbye 50 dollars :slight_smile: . have to import it, so it may take some while.

just playing around

#32

oversaw your last post: Letā€™s start! :slight_smile:

#33

Erich,

Hmm, yeah, I hate recommending these books sometimes because I know itā€™s so much more expensive for Europeansā€¦but I think in this case, itā€™s worth the investment. :slight_smile:

I think that he and Burne Hogarth have the most well~documented system in terms of approaching the breakdown of the figure. I have learned from both Hogarth and from the same school of thought as Vilppu, but it helps me to put my own system together by working on the forum and by teaching the CGWorkshops. Hopefully one day I can refer people to my own book. :wink:

At any rate, keep working on the 15 MS in the meantime ~ the key is just to get the practice at this point. On the Beginnersā€™ Lounge thread, last post, Margie made a good point about drawing with media that makes it difficult to draw details ~ such as a brush with ink, charcoal sticks, etc. I think it might be a good exercise for you.

With respect to integrating different approaches to learning how to draw:

Iā€™ve thought A LOT about this over the years as Iā€™ve tried to integrate the different approaches that I was taught in school. I had well over a dozen different drawing / painting teachers, each with their own approach, and oftentimes it was confusing to sort through which approach to take and why.

Ultimately, an approach is just that ~ an approach ~ and there is no right or wrong way to learn how to draw. Things that may seem contradictory ~ like the accuracy / detailed approach to learning anatomy in the CGWorkshop, vs. the Gesture / loose / capture the essence approach Iā€™m advocating in the 15 Min. Sketchathon, are actually good to do in conjunction with one another ~ the combining of the two or three or however many approaches you learn comes over time, as you process these various techniques and approaches yourself.

As such, I was never taught a system of integration for all of the different approaches I learned in school ~ that has been a process that I have undertaken myself in the years since undergraduate school, and my primary point of departure has been through the study of master works. Doing so many has helped me to integrate all of the different things that I couldnā€™t resolve in school ~ some styles you are taught simply donā€™t mesh easily with others, and it takes hard work to get them to combine ~ the ultimate result of which is your own sensibility, and style.

I know Iā€™ve rambled, but I hope this makes sense. :slight_smile:

Cheers,

~Rebecca

#34

Hi rebecca,

I have found these elaborations quite useful as it further clarifies my questions about this subject.

As concerns Vilppu: You gave me the same recommendation and as I can not spend the fifty bucks this year I was searching for other sources - and in the Art Theories forum in the Tutorials-sticky they have a link to Vilppu articles (Drawing section). Could bridge the gap, Erich:)

#35

well ok, now i understand it. so everybody develops an approach that fits best to him over the time, and what we did in the workshop and the 15 MS are different ones.

ok, just to repeat: gesture drawing is first (big picture), 2nd opposing curves and 3rd shading. guess this is your actual personal process?

#36

thx Mr Mu, iā€™ll check this out :slight_smile:

#37

Mr. Mu,

Hehe, thanks ~ I know, often Iā€™ll get asked a question on one thread, and itā€™ll take me a while to process it ~ I know this is surprising given my Korean post~bot reputation :wink: ~ and lo and behold, the ā€œanswerā€ will surface in response to another personā€™s direct or indirect inquiry. Iā€™m sort of like an unreliable magic eight ball. :scream:

At any rate, I definitely had you in mind when responding to this question. Itā€™s the beauty of the forums that you guys get to interact, and one personā€™s issues are mostly universal.

More directly in response to your earlier question, there are two reasons why I cannot give a perfect answer to your question:

  1. I donā€™t have a perfectly formalized system myself. The forum helps me as much in terms of putting together that system as I hope it helps folks on the forum learn how to draw and paint traditionally and digitally. Having said that, there is probably a lot more that I know than I am able to express thus far / due to the nature of the web / time constraints / etc. I am working hard to move forward in my ability to teach. :slight_smile:

  2. There is no perfect answer. Getting different approaches to harmonize is HARD WORK. But I think you are at the point now where you just wish to learn a solid approach, which I completely understand. I have heard that Loomisā€™ approach is a lot more rigorous than Vilppuā€™s approach, which is a bit more romantic / expressive. I personally didnā€™t learn according to Loomisā€™ approach, so I am hard~pressed to teach it. I am much better qualified to teach according to the Vilppu approach, which I find more approachable by your average student anyway. Having said that, I think that whatever way people want to learn is fine. It just takes discipline and drive and practice to learn.

I hope I havenā€™t confused your further!

The long and short of it is: In terms of this forum, I am most likely going to teach in terms of the methods that Vilppu, Carmean, Hogarth, and others taught me, either directly or indirectly. I recommend for anyone to purchase Vilppuā€™s Drawing Manual, as it gives us a common basis from which to work. However, I am happy to look at / critique work done according to ANY method. By no means am I a dictator of style.

Hope this helps! :slight_smile:

EDIT: With respect to $, the main reason Iā€™m running this forum is to be able to provide as much free information to artists as possible. So I completely understand the cost issue (particularly with respect to European folks trying to get hold of expensive imported books). Iā€™ll do my best to try to break things down in my own patented system. :wink:

Cheers, :slight_smile:

~Rebecca

#38

originally posted by Erich: well ok, now i understand it. so everybody develops an approach that fits best to him over the time, and what we did in the workshop and the 15 MS are different ones.

Yep!

ok, just to repeat: gesture drawing is first (big picture), 2nd opposing curves and 3rd shading. guess this is your actual personal process?

Erich, Here is an individual post from my Anatomy Thread which probably best shows my personal process (at least on some days!):

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2855537&postcount=68

I think youā€™re basically right.

  1. Gesture
  2. Opposing Curves
  3. Shading.

However, the goal is to KEEP the Gesture and Opposing Curves alive up through the Shading step. Itā€™s not easy to do. When people (including myself) shade, they tend to flatten things out. Mentally, you have to constantly think about the Gesture and Opposing Curves, and put that into your Drawing as you are Shading.

So, while these steps seem sequential on paper, in practice, you are trying to think of them all at once.

Hope this makes sense. :slight_smile:

Cheers,

~Rebecca

#39

Loomis covers a lot more ground than most art instructors and does so in a pretty fast pace. Itā€™s more technical, and the more advanced books Creative Illustration & Succesful Drawing are clearly aimed at people who wish to make a living as illustrators. And illustrators have to be able to draw anything and everything. The emphasis is on figure drawing and portraiture, but he also covers perspective, composition, the use of color and value and anatomy. The latter is not his strongest point and definitely not enough to get a good grip on the matter. He knew his limits and advised people to get a good anatomy book to study from.

   However, a book like [Fun with a Pencil](http://d538518.u320.bigcrawler.com/fun/fun.htm) teaches the basics of building form with simple shapes and lines. So now I'm going to confuse everybody even more (muahahaha!  :twisted:  just kiddin' guys!)
   and say that Fun with a Pencil could be very useful to learn to simplify drawings.
#40

Just wanted to say that I really like this drawing! :slight_smile: