Rebecca Kimmel's Anatomy Review 002: OPPOSING CURVES

#301

Rebecca:yesterday I wanted to write: “answer you” not “ask you”. I am Sorry for that mistake
Just wanted to ask a queston - should we continue the discusion here or should we move to art discussion forum. I think that it is perfect to continue here, but I will do as you wish. I will answer you tonight or tomorrow, because the discussion came onto the thin ice and became very serious. You’ve come with great opinions (and not only you - I would like to answer more people than only one). I don’t want to davastate the meaning of this forum (learning anatom). It is what I still want to do, but I think that discussion like this one go along with it. Please tell me your opinion

#302

franzboas,

You are most welcome! And I appreciate your participation.

With respect to “Real” Anatomy ~ we will get there. However, I will emphasize OVER and OVER again that it is not the ANATOMY which is most important, particularly for beginners, but the BASIC CONCEPTS about DRAWING: Gesture / Lay-In, Opposing Curves and more ~ which override memorizing plates from Anatomy texts in importance for learning how to draw.

Almost everyone who has posted work has basic problems in these areas, and knowing the term “Trochanter” won’t fix this. Drawing is about [color=pink][color=palegreen]PRACTICE[/color] of CORE CONCEPTS and the CONTINUAL REFINING of these CORE CONCEPTS OVER TIME. Anatomy gets slowly blended into the mix as students MASTER CORE CONCEPTS and are prepared to take on more difficult drawing tasks. I STRONGLY BELIEVE in this method ~ as I believe the FUNDAMENTALS are the foundation upon which the “house” must be built.[/color]

Thanks for your posts, and I hope you continue to post your work!

~Rebeccak

#303

Mirwen,

I think these thoughts are all very interesting, but it’s kind of hard for me to go back and forth between different forums when I’m trying to keep up with this one.

For the time being, let’s keep the discussion BRIEF, but on this thread, as I think it IS interesting, but I don’t want to delve too deeply into this topic as it takes up space which should be dedicated to peoples’ work and their reviews.

It is not that I am uninterested in the discussion ~ quite the opposite! But I just don’t have time to jump around different forums right now.

But I appreciate your feedback :slight_smile:

~Rebeccak

#304

Okey, sorry for posting another one so early but i think this one is way better. Couldn’t help it :shrug: The sketch got messy after i decided to change the legs. The opposed curves where already there (> or <) for the original gesture drawing so i had to go in and ink it. :wip: Which is not my forte, but it came out looking good. :thumbsup: The guy is stocky by design, specially in the head.

Whatever is a “Tronchanter”?

–kaspaxl

#305

NOOB! Good stuff man!

Going back to study this satue some more!

#306

I’m a newbie at posting, this is my second time doing this. I just wanted to say that I loved this lesson and when I get some free time I’ll do the exercise and post my drawing. As newbie with 3d modeling this lesson has helped me get a better idea on human anatomy.

Thanks again.

#307

Just some thoughts on what I have seen here.

Lots of the works here are really expressive and give a special feel behind the artist thought and style.

Something I am seeing a little bit from going through these works though is some are not doing gesture drawings to get the main forms and going directly to opposing curves.

The gesture could be very quick and even cubic depending on what you like best, look at this post for a good example.

http://cgtalk.com/showpost.php?p=2438164&postcount=50

See how Xillion has made two types of gestures for some of the poses with either box and cylindrical forms or the curved line forms.

Get the gesture first add a layer on top of it in PS or use a penor darker pencil to add the opposing curves. If you see a mistake in your gesture fix it in your opposing curves version. Gestures in general are for quick reference of the basic shapes. Try to get out of your gesture shapes if needed. Do not get too attached to perfection either. Try to vary the line weight with the curved lines. Make lines thicker as the lines get closer based on perspective and make lines lighter with further away forms, This is something you can go over after you did the opposing curves so do not concentrate too much on that idea. Although it is good practice because it will help understand the forms better and if you can do it on the fly while doing lines it will look smoother at the end. The line weight takes a while to get right I am still a trying to get it rightish. Hope it helps. Another small idea is to not pick up your pencil at all while doing one curved line. Do curved line with some line weight
Pick up and do another. Try to make bigger more confident lines.

Just a suggestion to start with the gesture and go on top of it with opposing curves.

Some other good examples of this are around.

#308

seth1,

Glad to see more posts! I think you have simplified some of your linework, which is great! However ~ simplify even MORE. Try to express each side of the torso with TWO lines only ~ this will help!

kaspaxl,

Looking good, but I like the loose gestural work under the inking FAR better than the “finished version”. Drawings need to BREATHE, even if they are inked. I would take it back a notch ~ I’ll post some examples of what I mean later.

Desp#2/Rog,

Great thoughts here! Thank you very much for sharing them, as I agree that people should create Gestures first, Opposing Curves second.

Xillion is indeed doing an exemplary job, and I applaud him in his efforts. He really seems to be following a set program, and I can see tremendous progress in his as well as in others’ work.

Great stuff, guys! What are peoples’ thoughts on how long this particular topic ~ “Opposing Curves” ~ should run? Do you guys want a new lesson on Monday, or do you want to wait a few days before beginning a new lesson?

Let me know.

Thank you! :slight_smile:

~Rebeccak

#309

Ok I have two more drawings here. I didn’t have enough time to correct everything that I wanted but I put them up here before there is a new lesson out

The first guy has a big head and the other too small hands
but feel free to criticise them to:)

(the reason for that the legs has les collor is that my camera has a stuppid flash:D )

sources:
http://www.scalespace.org/2003/images/leopard%20man%20of%20skye.jpg
and
http://www.thais.it/scultura/image/sch00065.htm

#310

Hi all…today I tried, for the second time in my life, to sketch from life.
I found it very difficult to do the gesture. My best efforts where done blocking out the forms looking at the shadows - to identify planes - and joints to identify the main directions. I found it difficult to catch the ever changing poses of the friend I was with. Even if I recognize it’s poor this is my best effort. The model was pretty static in this one.

So…here we go (sorry for the bad images but these are photos of the sheets of paper…)
The second image is the first live drawing I did in my life…It’s my brother’s portrait. I did it back in 96’ on a hot boring summer day…he stayed in that pose like a mummy while reading a book :wink:

Rebeccak: I’m indeed trying to get the best out of these lessons and trying to do a comparison with other methods / books. I do have all Bourne hogarth’s books (I really love his style!) though I really did not spend much practicing along with them cause, up to now, I did not understand the power of his teachings. I also have Loomis books and I found them interesting, he starts with perspective so it’s a bit overwhelming at first (to get the things good) but he teaches in a very clear and organized way.The one who’s really helping me is Vilppu (I never heard of him before this thread…so…thanks!). His video lessons are really cool. Seeing the progress of the concept explained is truly helpful. His process is a bit more loose on correctness of perspective so gives instant gratification. So far It’s quite similar to your approach: it involves gesture,boxing, opposing curves (ovals on boxing) etc…
Though boxing is really useful for shading, I really found it useful to to grasp the gesture itself when drawing from life.
Today I learnt that it’s fundamental to draw from life. I bet one day I’ll be able to catch gestures on the fly…I think Delacroix once said that a true artist should be capable of doing a complete drawing in less than two minutes…and now I understand what he was speaking about…

#311

latest previous

i try again!!

afronmusc1.jpg600x1021

#312

Wow, guys, talk about instant gratification! I am thrilled that you are actually taking my suggestions, it is a real pleasure to see everyone improving!

pulver,

thank you for posting these ~ don’t worry about the camera quality, I spend an endless amount of time correcting my own photos in Photoshop before posting, and still they’re a little wonky ~ no worries.

Xillion,

great thoughts, thanks for sharing a bit about your learning process! It is indeed intriguing to hear your take on how you learn, as it helps others to figure things out, too. I think it takes learning different methods of Drawing from different teachers, be they peers or otherwise, to truly learn how to draw. I am still stitching together all of the various things I have learned over the years from various sources, and it is stimulating to hear that you are also wending your way through the process :), so kudos for all the hard work!

Drawing from life is indeed key, and all of the rules that seem simple enough here are put to the test when you draw before the real thing ~ the real human figure. Indeed looking for shadow shapes to identify planes is a good method to go about drawing, and I would just encourage you to draw as much and as often from life as you possibly can.

NOOB,

miles and miles better. I think you can see the difference in quality. I think you do know your stuff pretty well, but you need to focus on refining what you know and not taking it for granted. I think if, for example, you drew in the manner in which you did for your updated drawing in your linework comps for your digital paintings, you would struggle much less with the actual painting portion of the process. It’s tough to figure out drawing as you are painting, as one tends to get the two processes confused, and ends up somewhat muddling along ~ and since you so clearly know how to piece together a figure, you shouldn’t have to do this.

My point being: finish your drawing before you start painting, and your results will be that much better. Don’t rush to the finish line and forget the original purpose.

__

And you, Lion! Courage! :wink:

Great stuff, guys!

~Rebeccak

#313

yeh,i’m a dumbass hehe.thanks for the tips

but now that i look at the revised version,that piece of fat stickin’ out his back is gettin on my nerves.do u agree it looks off?

i’m gunna continue with this pic,add legs feet etc,then i’ll post it yet again,

.plus i’ll do a woman,they have easier curves.

#314

NOOB,

now that I look at it, he does seem to have a bit of a neck and back goiter, so perhaps you could lance them and make him more comfortable :wink:

…well, that’s kind of gross…

Definitely draw the full figure and repost! :slight_smile:

~Rebeccak

#315

Noob: Looks a bunch better…
rebecca: How much longer untill your site is up? I will try to simplify even more…

This counts right? Haha it has opposing curves?

#316

Uh…not feeling the pandas :wink: at least for this thread.

HOWEVER ~ this is a great idea for a thread for the Artistic Anatomy and Figurative Art sub-forum ~ to have an “Animal Drawings” thread where people can post these!

Cool. But, yeah, no more animals for this thread, please, as we’re trying hard to stay on topic :). Absolutely no offense meant :). Is this, like, a panda-rific birthday wish for NOOB?

~Rebeccak

EDIT: A good friend of mine is working on my Website, and I am hoping it will be up next week :slight_smile: thanks for asking!

#317

thanks seth.

for the sake of being easier to follow,don’t u think it would be best to keep it human at this stage? and maybe save animals for a later lesson?

but anyway,not up to me…

i think its a nice attempt,but u seem to be over using the curves theory,do u happen to have the reference u used nearby?

edit: becks beat me too it …heh

#318

rebecca: Heh, i thought so but hey:( That sub form for animal drawings would be cool…
Noob: I dident use a reference. Little concepts for a b-day card lol… The curves i dunno i just cant help over using them…

#319

Its crucial u spend more time on picture before posting,its not really fair on rebecca and the rest of us that spend allota of time to crit pics.

however,the curves are a lil better on this,but its the proportions i worry about on this one.

Please spend longer,and post again,we’re all willing to help!:thumbsup:

#320

Hi guys,

Some nice work showing up! kudos!

Just a quick tip on a personal technique that works for me when either improving scanned images or improving the quality of my photographed drawings.

Firstly, if you look at the majority of drawings that are photographed, the light source (when taking the photo without a flash) is on the right. Either try to get the image facing the light source (window) directly OR use a normal bedside lamp on the left to compensate the exposure. This will save unnecessary editing in Photoshop later.

Ok and on to my process:

  1. Open your scanned image/photo.

  2. If your drawing is purely black and white, then use “Desaturate” (image -> adjustments -> Desaturate)

  3. you need to tell Photoshop what colour “white” is (cause computers are stupid!!), so in levels (image -> adjustments -> Levels) click on the “white point” icon (on the far right), now select a blank “white area” on the drawing (usually this will be a grey colour - depending on your light source), instantly you will see the grey background turn to white, if it is still not bright enough click a part that still has the evil grey colour, likewise if it is too bright click around the image (the blank space only) and see what you prefer. This is important in not losing the line quality of the gesture or any “faint” lines in your drawing.

  4. to make the contrast of your image reflect your real drawing (ie: line colour, strength) still in “Levels” move the middle “grey” slider to make your line quality stronger without making the background any darker in the slightest. :buttrock:

Hope this helps in future efforts! :thumbsup:

  • Somhairle