R21 in one month...we'll know


#483

rsquires, I don’t think the national price differences reflects much more than the currency values / exchange rate.


#484

I’ve been a user since R9 and faithfully paid my MSA, even when releases were ho hum I did 't sweat it as there was always the promise of next release and so it went over the years. When 3DKiwi jumped ship it was a bit of an eye opener as he had always been the standard bearer for C4D as well as beta tester. if he had reason to leave that said something to me. two so-so releases later I left for Houdini.

I popped in here to see what was in R21 and see peoples reactions to release and found only there is not only one version - meh ok - but also subscriptions??? which I really detest. Ok sure the annual (monthly) subscription is actually a bit less than studio MSA but my worry would be what about next year or two or three years later when it could go from $60 to $70 or $80 or $100 a month, what then? you gotta pay to keep access to your files. I’m guessing the bean counters at Maxon figured this is the best model to keep coffers full and people jumping ship has been factored in.


#485

So how are things in Houdini land? If I was 25 or something I might be all over that. Seems like way too much to learn at this point (for me.)

Are you a 3d generalist or specialist?


#486

My twist plot about people behind David McGavran - stop expansion of Maxon! Slow down it, passive activities for Nemetschek and acquire by Adobe. And plot is a joke.


#487

Mine wasn’t slow. I asked a question about this years MSA and within an hour I got a reply. Design Express has always been good at communication.

As for me that will be my last post here for a while. I realized I’m for the first time in 13 years (I missed r12 and r13 due to health issues) free from Maxon’s “sword of Damocles”, keep paying your MSA or get penalized heavily and dearly for each year that you miss. Which is some sort of blackmail if you think about it. And I’m not going to swap that for the blackmail version of “pay, or else we disable your toolset”.

I wish you all good luck.
Fork corporate greed.


#488

Rikof I’m sorry (speaking on behalf of the soul that Adobe-imported-Maxon-leadership doesn’t possess).


#489

if you change your plan from perpetual to subscription they can, but if you stay on perpetual they can’t because you and them have a contract. with adobe that’s a completely different thing, since it’s sub only.


#490

From everything I’ve read, heard and learned about the new release/subscription so far, I come to my personal conclusion that R20 will be my last C4D release. I will not renew my MSA or go perpetual and I will definitely not go the subscription way!
My concerns are that the subscription is more expensive (+ 1/3) than my current MSA and - by far the more serious concern! - that as of release R21+ I can no longer access my (old) work without “paying a ransom”.
I’ve been using C4D for almost 20 years and it’s sad to be “forced” to say goodbye by MAXON’s decision. In the course of my 20 years with C4D, I’ve invested a lot of money in plugins and render engines. Last - early this year - RedShift, because I was looking for an alternative for Vray … ha! Bad luck!
Should Maxon - as unlikely as this seems to me now - offer former MSA customers an alternative to the subscription model currently being presented, maybe I wouldn’t leave the ship completely. But it would always be associated with a stale aftertaste, with lost trust and therefore paramount caution and vigilance.
But it is what it is. As it looks right now, I will use R20 as long as possible … until MAXON eventually stops the downloads for R20 in three years or so and expropriates the last “stubborn disbelievers”.
In the meantime I will switch to Blender - or maybe to an indie version of …


#491

I sure hear that.


#492

On the bright side: I’m totally hyped up about learning Houdini Indie for 250€/year. I learned modeling, animation and rendering through C4d. Now is the time to step up my game. All I need to keep is a copy of R20 as my 3D hub.
And for this price I can buy a redshift license on top and get all my needs covered for a while.


#493

Why R20? This was a license number activated version, and you can download the installer and the update installer and keep both for later. Maxon can’t take that away, as they theoretically could with the R21 (which phones home and needs constant activation - the verdict on that is not out yet).

The major issue with old C4D versions is probably that they may stop working due to OS or driver incompatibilities. If you want to run C4D forever (or, let’s be fair, any old software) you may need to keep a machine handy with all the old installations, and keep that away from the internet for security reasons. From that point on, it will become a bother.

(I do have a laptop with Windows2000 for that reason, though the usage is not related to any 3D. Rugged stuff.)


#494

macripp your redshift version will work with Houdini, but not sure with Indie.


#495

Redshift works with Houdini Indie. I’m pretty sure it was limited to HD for animations although looking at the SideFX site I’m not sure that’s a limitation any more.
I think it’s just the free Houdini Apprentice that doesn’t support third party renderers.

Edit: found it:
“When rendering image sequences, you are restricted to 4096 x 4096 pixels. There are not restrictions for still images. The image sequence restrictions apply to Mantra and any third party renderers supported by Indie.”

https://www.sidefx.com/faq/houdini-indie-faq/


#496

speaking of Houdini there is this free MOPS add-on for motion graphics that looks less daunting compared to the basic Houdini setups:

https://www.motionoperators.com/video-tutorials-2

The website have many tutorials about Generators, Modifiers and Falloffs like this one:


#497

I don’t think Houdini is a good evolution. It is certainly more powerful but it comes with a price of unnecessary complexity.


#498

I understand a lot of the complaints in moving to a subscription model (especially the disingenuous marketing of $59.99/mo when it’s really $720/year), however, I think much of the talk here (and even on Cafe) is quite a bit melodramatic.

I’ll bet the truth for most of the users here, at least the ones who make a living using C4D, is that you’ve been paying around the same cost it will be per year now, and that you’ve rarely had to rely on an old perpetual version you might have lying around. And if you let your MSA lapse, or chose to just go the upgrade path, your re-entry back into that shiny new version was steep.

The subscription model helps ease that pain. Off the top of my head… It makes re-entry much easier. It attracts new users. It saves literally thousands of dollars for new seat purchases (which will be very attractive to studios, small and large). It’ll keep most of the C4D user base up-to-date and compatible (which is critical for working with other C4D artists or studios), I mean, I can’t be the only artist that doesn’t work in a bubble. And, I’m sure there’s more…

Yes, there’s downsides (like loss of perpetual). That’s been made clear here already, but I’m sticking with C4D because it’s allowed me to make a living for 20+ years, and is naturally just part of my overhead, and I’ve always expected it to be, so this announcement I’m kind of stoked by. Especially if it bolsters development and brings updates/upgrades to us faster than every year. Time will tell there.

That said, it would be nice to see some sort of Indie or Student price. I do feel for the beginners/hobbyists. I was there once. And maybe Blender is for you. But I also feel like $720/yr is a great deal for all-access to one of the industry-leading software that we all use, most of us to make money using (compare to 3DS Max or Maya at $195/mo or $1545/yr.). Honestly, that’s pretty competitive. Besides, MoGraph is pretty hard to say goodbye to.


#499

If Maxon change sdk, will insydium’s bridge support R21 as R20?


#500

I watched some of the Siggraph day 3 presentations and all anyone needs to feel excited about R21 is to watch @noseman present for 30 minutes. He’s so happy working in C4d, is a great instructor, dynamic presenter, funny, and he did a great job explaining why the new features of R21 are so neat and how they all tie together. I couldn’t hear the crowd much, but I was laughing a lot while also being impressed with field volumes and the masking system.

They just need a bunch of videos of him on the Maxon website talking about R21. I feel like the website wasn’t ready for a major reveal and R21 has more to offer than is shown.

I can’t wait for his Cineversity videos explaining the new features.


#501

The problem with Maxon’s New CEO is that I wonder if he actually knows C4d…the way he presented the new features was embarrassing…


#502

Perpetual license holders are now second class citizens. This is truly disappointing. Maxon was once a wholesome family-oriented business I felt good about giving my money to (and I’ve paid thousands of dollars to Maxon over the years for the MSA alone). Now Maxon serves new masters. Spin notwithstanding (Maxon for the whole world! It’s cheaper!), they want to lock you in to perpetual payments without the benefits of ownership, let alone corporate accountability for long-term product improvements. For the customer, it just sounds like indentured servitude. I’m sorry to say here’s where we part ways, Maxon. It’s been a good ten years. I just wish it could have ended on a more positive note.