R21 First Impressions


Yeah “opacity” is a bit obscure. Should be “strength” I suppose. Seems they are looking at it as a layer stack (like Photoshop)

In either case, pretty cool stuff!


I think in this case it works well; you need to think of it as a compositing stack, and the opacity and blend modes of the force layers provide a lot of control…


The whole fields system is crying our for a nodal system to glue everything together. Layers are great for simple systems and these short tutorials but in production the Object Manager quickly gets impossible to read what’s happening.

Fields is the best thing to have happened to C4D in a decade but like everything the current developers roll out it’s under cooked or half baked. It’ll be several more releases before it’s ready.

I expected R21 to come with a multi-threaded Xpresso replacement and Thinking Particles replacement, I mean how much longer do they need to pull their fingers out when R16 had the new core, but I’m beginning to think that maybe the only thing will happen is a new re-skin of Xpresso. I can’t see any sign it’s going away.

It looks to me like this R21 Fields Forces is a Dollar-Shop version of XParticles and they’re basing it around the Standard Emitter and there may be no Thinking Particles replacement at all. This might be it.

How long does it take to develop a new nodal Particle system? Blender has one (1) developer working on a new nodal multi-threaded particle system and he’s been working on it for about a year and it’s in the final stages of finishing. How is it that a resource constrained company comprehensively out develops a company which is raking in millions of Euros? How does that happen, I’d love to know?

Anyone else had that impression of R21?


Well just see what Tyler is doing with Tyflow to see something much more consistent not an hack to plug holes.


Yep, it looks amazing. I don’t think Maxon have it in them to create anything like that.

It only takes a few motivated developers from other applications to send C4D on a one way trip to destination Lightwave. Newtek squandered being the de facto 3d motion graphics application and there was no coming back once the mind-share was lost.


Has something changed with the animation in R21?

If I keyframe the position of a Sphere to 0,0,0 on frame 0, then forward some frames and try to translate the sphere, it keeps jumping back to the keyframed position… Never did this before.


OK, so it seems that if I have a Texture View window open, when I attempt to animate the position of an object it will always snap back to previous keyframed position…

Can someone please explain that me?


weird. i don’t have any of the problems you got. alt+RMB works as expected, so does the keyframing, material window open or not. must be something with your system?


It’s the Texture View window, not the Material window… just to avoid confusion.


ah i see… yes, i can confirm this… seems to be a bug… just had to try it also in r20, since i never tried to animate anything with the texture window open. but no issues in r20.

gonna write a bug report…


I wrote one earlier, too. Thanks for confirming. Appreciated!


I thought Jacques Luque started working on Nodes three years ago. Anyway, at this point Maxon shouldnt compete with XParticles… they should buy Insydium (its a great time to sell, because sooner than later the userbase will get smaller)

Maxon should work in viewport speed and the core, and they should show us some progress, they dont have a reason not to, since we are on subscription now.


Dave McGavran confirmed on C4DCafe this week that they haven’t given up on producing a new particle system and updates to that and all the other dated sections of C4D are in the works. No timeframe though. He took a Cafe member out for a beer - I don’t think company heads do this every day in the CG industry - and let him (plus the general community) know his plans for C4D’s future path are ambitious. And he apparently wants to pick the pace of development up a bit too.


You could then try indigo, you’ll be surprised for the speed and ease of use, and overall plugin quality. I can’t be bothered with prorenderer wheken indigo is so much faster


I saw this nonsense on Twitter leading up to the Maxon Siggraph announcement. Have you actually considered that the founders of Insydium have no intention of selling all their hard work to a company who’d more than likely let it rot like Xpresso/TP.

Jacques Lucke’s first development Report was 17th-21st Sept 2018. That was his first week as a Blender Developer. He quickly made a python proof of concept of the new Particle system which was featured on a Blender.Today broadcast a short while before moving to Amsterdam full time. He’s only 21 and looks like he’s going to have a stellar career ahead of him.


I read that Open Letter thread. McGavaran is a master of the non-committal management statement, if you read anything positive into anything he says you’re going to be disappointed.

They haven’t ruled out is not the same as we’re actively developing a next gen particle system. They might be hard at work on the all too numerous dated features but they might’ve only just started last Monday.

For Maxon to be hooking Fields into legacy TP and the standard emitter says to me you’re going to have to wait a very long time to see any signs of progress. Where will BiFrost and Houdini be when Maxon finally releases a TP replacement? They’ll be ever further down the road and probably way out of sight.

Pick up the speed of development? Well, it could hardly get slower cough, R21, cough, could it?


Have you actually considered that the founders of Insydium have no intention of selling all their hard work to a company who’d more than likely let it rot like Xpresso/TP.

Well, Allegorithmic did sold to Adobe,. and redshift sold to Maxon, so anything can happen at this stage.

C4D has had a brutal CEO and policy change too in a couple of months, and the competition also changed quite a lot in the meantime. So, for good and bad the past isn’t a good example of what’s ahead.

Unlike before, where Maxon wanted to do everything in-house (which sometimes led to very slow development), McGavran showed that they’re now open to third party acquisitions.

Unlike Redshift, which is present on all platforms, insydium’s market is 100% C4D and in the meantime XP is one of the main reasons C4D is still relevant. So in a sense, they both have the need for the other to thrive, while Redshift could have survived without Maxon.

At last, when a tech company is bought, the original owners are usually locked in for at least 4 or 5 years, and/or offered a new role in the group.

Not saying this will ever happen, but it very much depends on the growth opportunity that insydium sees while being independant, and how much Maxon is willing to spend.


Of course you could be quite right.

If I was a betting man I would bet Maxon has already approached Insydium and been shown the door. That doesn’t mean there might not be future conversations to be had.

The Insydium guys appear canny, they know C4D is a single point failure for their whole business model which is why I think there’s more going on behind closed doors. It wouldn’t at all surprise me if XParticles was the genesis for a standalone product, they’re basically recreating they’re own mograph application inside C4D. With USD being adopted it would mean XParticles SA would become compatible with any DCC which supports USD.

If Maxon did purchase Insydium then how many people would be thrilled to pay an extra $300/yr for an XP bundle like the Redshift Bundle? I don’t think Maxon would buy Insydium and roll XP into the annual base subscription under this new money focused management. All people would be doing is paying the same if not more money to Maxon instead of Insydium for what benefit? You aren’t guaranteed to have the developers move to Maxon because a deal may just be for IP only.

People should be careful what they wish, we’re only having this conversation because Maxon have demonstrated their inability to develop a replacement for their own ancient tools. Who would want to see the shining light of XParticles snuffed out by acquisition?


I’m agree with you. Ono, Fused and other indigo developers are making awesome work.
Sorry, I do not like Redshift. I can not say nothing about Prorender(only tech.wars are being between nVidia and ATI)


I think there are signs that Insydium knows what is going on at Maxon, that plugin tool to make other plugins work with R20 for example.