Picking a new matte painting system, opinion needed.

#1

Alright so my desktop that was long overdue for an overhaul bit the dust around christmas (thank God it wasnt before Siggraph!). The only system I have now is my vanilla first release MacBook, running at a whooping 1.83GHz and 2 GB of RAM. Personally its a great machine, it will let me do full screen captures at 720p while painting in photoshop so really I’ve got no complaint. The problem is my desktop was for the heavy work 3d, heavy shake composites, and video editing due to the Raptors I had on RAID 0.

So what I’m getting to is… its tax season, I dont work in the industry yet so I am working for peanuts, which, with the wife and two kids - gives me basically a government grant to get a new machine. Im sure this yearly stimulis package will soon go away with more and more professional interest making themselves known so I need to get replacement that will last a while. And while I love getting the next greatest thing everytime its comes out from Apple or where ever, being a matte painter means that I can use a machine for years before it needs replacement. Camera on the other hand is long in the tooth, but thats another thread for another day. Ok… I rambling so on to the meat of the post.

I’m looking at a few options. I have about 2k to spend and before anyone says you can get windows machine for less, Im going apple. Two words why…Windows Vista and of course the apps I have invested my time to learn are on mac only. Besides if I need cough windows there I will have boot camp. So I have narrowed down the options to these.

$1699 2.4Ghz Macbook Pro 15" (New Unibody)
15.4-inch LED-backlit glossy widescreen display 1440 x 900
Nvidia 9600m GT 256MB
2GB memory 1066Mhz
250GB hard drive 5400rpm
8x SuperDrive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)

$1899 2.6Ghz Macbook Pro 17" (Late 2007 Model)
17-inch high-resolution widescreen display 1920 x 1200
2GB memory 667Mhz
200GB hard drive; 7200 rpm
8x SuperDrive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT with 512MB of GDDR3 memory

$1999 2.5 Ghz Macbook Pro 17" (Early 2008 Model)
17-inch Hi-Resolution LED-backlit glossy display 1920 x 1200
4GB memory
320GB hard drive 5400 rpm
8x SuperDrive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT with 512MB of GDDR3 memory

So from my research I have been able to find that these three machines perform about the same, a slight increase of about 2-5% going toward the 15" obviously beacause its the first iteration of the unibody design and more current.

The downside for me for the 15" is two fold though, the resolution is not much higher then my current macbook and it has a glossy screen which I find difficult sometimes when painting at starbucks in Arizona. The pluses are its a current generation, the unibody makes for a rugged design (I have done some time lapse photos tethered to my laptop on the side of a mountain after hiking) its small which makes it the perfect size for my current laptop bag, minor though. It has a back lit LED screen which from what I understand is better for calibration, which I do. I took a trip to the apple store and my last reservation, that Apple Color wouldnt work on a low rez monitor, was swayed when I did a grade on the 15" and it was fine. Slow hard drive is detracting but the price is low enough I can have that replaced.

The first 17" is where I’m leaning but with a few reservations. Its and older model but still just a comperable as the current line. It has a matte screen at full HD rez which makes me very happy. It also has the same features as the early 2008 model as far a chipset, they are almost identical except with one detail, Backlit LED display is not on this laptop, so the calibration, though still possible, will not be as good. On the plus its got a 7200 RPM drive with alot of space (Im running 60GB in my MacBook, with 2 externals though) so video work, which I do a bit of will be ideal. Also I save $100 bucks over the other 17".

The last 17" Has all the benefits of the other except it has backlit LED display, though glossy, which I guess I could live with. It also has a bigger drive, though slower and has the maximum load of 4GB of RAM which will help with Photoshop quite a bit. Also since it was the last of the 17" Pros before going to unibody, its a refined design with most of the bugs worked out since its 2006 release. Unlike the 15" which has a few issues being that its the first run of a new build. Also this computer takes up my budget and will cost me an additional $150 on taxes as well.

I will say that all 3 of these laptops are refurbished from apple and will have a three year apple care warranty. So if any of these break during that time from hardware failure apple will fix it or replace it with a current model. I currently own a refurbed mac and I will say its like buying a new one without the pretty box. Ideally a Unibody 17" Macbook Pro is what I want but 3k is not in the cards right now because I have to buy my wife a computer as well and she wants a macbook. Not mine though that would be too easy she wants a warranty and well we have plans to make it my sons home school laptop.

So the thoughts I have are these, the 15" is a strudy body, with some great enhancements, but has a low rez glossy screen not ideal for tethered shooting on a camera outside either. On the other hand it is the best out there now with processor support and supports 6GB of ram which would be great for matte painting, that hard drive is small but so is my current drive. And the 256MB GeForce doesnt bug me since it doesnt really affect anything till I play games.

When I look at the 17" though I think of how great it would be to paint a matte painting at full HD rez. I can actually work on it at the size it would be viewed at on a theatre projection. Its not too big for me, I could care less about the size, it just means I wont need my monitor on my desk anymore. But then Im torn with the glossy LED or non Glossy non LED. How much of a different will that make? And a glossy LED yeah, but it comes decked out with RAM which is a matte painters dream. Of course with the $ I save on the other 17" I can get a full 4GB of ram.

So again what doesnt bother me is size, processor speed, and to a certain extent graphics card (as long as its got one really). What bugs me is Resolution mainly and then LED or Non LED and Glossy or Non. Hard Drives can and probably will be replaced when SSD drops in price. 2GB of Ram is what I have on my macbook and its acceptable when working though 4GB would be great. I could go on for hours and I pratically have so I will just ask what are your thoughts?

Last thing though, I will eventually get a cintiq to sit on my desk and my laptop being my only computer from this purchase on will be used to drive it. The new 15 inch model does not support Cintiqs at this point, this may change especially since Wacom is sure to update the line with the new Intuous features, but that is the current reality.

Thank your for letting me waste your time.

#2

One additional thing, 15" Ram is $75 for 4GB.

#3

I got an early 2008, matte 17" hi-def with 2gig and 7200 drive and have been quite happy with it. realistically, RE: the glossy screen, if I am doing serious work on it I hook up to an external 24" monitor.

Obviously you know not to buy Apple RAM.

#4

Thanks for the info, I am actually leaning a lot toward the second option. I was checking wikipedia and found out that apple never made non backlit led in HD rez. Prior to them releasing the full HD panel the highest they went was 1680 x 1050 and they went HD it included a led display. Also the more I read about the new unibody design the more first run issues I’m seeing.

It’s good to get opinions though. Thanks and keep them coming.

#5

Thanks for some of this info. I had no idea that the cintiq wouldn’t work with a MB pro 15 inch.

make sure you buy something with the lowest amount of memory possible since you can buy memory cheap from Macsales.com for pretty cheap. And it’s good memory.

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/Apple_MacBook_MacBook_Pro/Upgrade/DDR3

I say get a 17 inch. Sounds like you’ll be happier with it. Not sure which one though.

#6

Im emailing that Wacom rep today to see if thats something they are going to be fixing. The architecture on the new pros would be better for rendering but at the same time after I purchase these machines I will have six processors over 3 macs and I could use Qmaster for network renders on maya and shake. I thinking more the middle option beacuse the extra 2 gigs is $35 and the HD is faster which will help when trying to use some of the RED and Panalog footage from fxPHD. I will wait check with Wacom though, this comp has to last like 3-4 years and if Wacom is putting out Cintiq that has intuous 4 features as well as compatibility with the new line… I may just take advantage of it.

Though if I have Applecare on a 17" and it dies, Apple will replace it with a current 17" model which would make me extremely happy!

#7

Updates on Apple store page shows a 15" previous, same specs as the one Im looking at but with $500 less on the sticker price… that is looking good as well, compact but fast and I can put some money into some other things (like an HV20 maybe)

#8

Apple updates the refurb list daily and now they have an option for the $1999 with LED and non-gloss. Slower hard drive but 4GB of RAM means less scratch use in Photoshop. I can always drop one of my 74GB raptors into a firewire enclosure for video. I mean I was never gonna get full HD to run real time without compression.

#9

You buy the same way I do. You’re going to be searching and trying to find deals till the day you actually purchase. Find out from wacom but then make a choice and just live with it :beer:

#10

Wacom is working on the issue with Apple. Its not just them though, according to a the rep I spoke to other panels that go above 1600 x 1200 have the same issues.

So just when I thought the decision couldnt get any worse, my wife drops the little nugget… “Get what you need because you I dont want to hear any more about it for the next 2 years!” She said she will take my old macbook because my sons home school stuff has changed and he wont need a computer. But I really want her to have something new, I mean I always get the shiny new toy and she always gets whats left over. I know she understands that I need more power with what I work on but I know she feels second rate when she isnt considered… anyway Im not gonna go all Dr. Phil in this forum… she has put up the other 1k for her computer and if I want to I can walk down to the apple store and get a shiny new 17 with the matte finish. Damn women… :sad:

#11

I’ve picked it… drum roll please…

The new MacBook Pro 17 inch Unibody.

2.66Ghz
4GB RAM
320 GB HD
Geforce 9600 GT 512 MB
1920 x 1200 Backlit LED w/ non-gloss.

I spoke to my wife and we ultimately decided that it would be better that I got something that could not only replace my desktop but replace it for a long period of time. Reviewing the options, this MacBook was going to be the most expandable. 8GB of RAM in a Mac is insane especially if your going to doing matte painting work, and of course when SSD drives go down in price I can always swap drives. The other thing is looking at the LCD, at the apple store they had the 15 inch right next to the 17 and you could tell that there was some diiference in the quality of colors. I also did some testing, since both machines had photoshop on them. I checked the quality of a gradient in 16bit color space. Both did pretty well for laptops but the 17 inch didnt have any perceptable steps in the grad. It was smooth. I will say that you have to be sure your looking at the grad at 1:1 rez in photoshop because photoshop will add banding. Apple has a really great screen in the 17, it is pretty great looking and should calibrate well and be considerable closer to a CRT then the typical screen.

Lastly is the 17 is the only one that has a matte finish. I like to go to starbucks to paint from time to time. Im not big on coffee but I like to sip a green tea and spend a couple hours painting. Part of this also means that I may get stuck with seat with no outlet. Apple is claiming the battery life is 8 hours… well its actually closer to 4 but thats way better then my current battery life and any other pros. But if have to sit at the window the glossy screen will just make life more difficult for me, just playing with two versions at the Apple store I see the glossy screen just being too much on reflections. The matte screen makes those shiny reflection go bye-bye, and with LEDs its way brighter to help with intense light sources.

My choice was between this and a new 15 and a 12 inch cintiq. I do very much want a cintiq but in actually playing with photoshop with a full 4k plate filling the screen with my brushes and color palletes all at the top of the screen with out covering the canvas i can see the benefit of having full 1920 x 1200 on laptop screen. I thought it was just a thing I wanted for just the kick of it, but a high rez screen makes painting alot better when your working on small tablet. You dont have to leave room for the palletes since the UI is smaller which means you can use more of your tablets surface area.

Anyway I will stop rambling and maybe touch back later when I have really benchmarked the system, to let you guys know how well it works. Thanks guys and good painting.

#12

Ive done some benchmarking and I am going to write a review on my new 17" Macbook Pro. I will post when its done… its an awesome system!

#13

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.