Photorealism in traditional art


#61

to clarify my point, one last time, in a slightly different way, as i really did simply want to talk about photorealism in art.

my own personal goal is not to be able to talk about art or be more educated in art than anyone else. i simply want to learn how to create art with greater skill – to create more powerful art. i write, i paint, i play music. to be absolutely clear, i do not even resemble an expert in any of those media. but to claim photorealistic art is boring, and so imply that it is a method no artist should use, aren’t you simply cutting yourself off from another way to express whatever you’re trying to get across?

it is my experience with the real-life artists i have had the pleasure of meeting and talking to that those who stand very firmly against photorealism are the artists who say things such as “art is totally free” and “there are no rules in art.” for the one artists out of a million that learns to create powerful art out of that group, those statements are perfectly correct. i believe one of my favorites – basquiat – is in that group. those are the artists we think of as troubled, who we imagine never make their beds, and eat cereal with a glass of vodka. in reality, however, those artists don’t ever really need to think about the degree to which their paintings represent their actual visual experience. and it should be stressed again that those artists are extremely rare.

the rest of us, however, might take some real time, think very hard, and read books about rules, if they do indeed exist. the degree to which an artist can render the intricacies of the natural visual world may in fact have a relationship with how intersting the line, space, and even color of their non-representational or other abstract art may be. betty edwards, the author of the book i mentioned earlier makes a great statement i think lies at the heart of the discussion of “photorealism” or really just “realism” in terms of HOW WE MAKE ART:

“artists who learn to draw well [ie realistically – her book is about realistic drawing] don’t always produce boring and and pedantic realistic art. the artists who do produce such art would no doubt produce boring and pedantic abstract or nonobjective art as well.”

that there really is enough said on this top. photorealism as a term does include “photo” and so there is a difference between realism and photorealism. however, from what was said prior to my original reply, many of you were mostly disregarding realism in general as boring, not the photorealistic movement. no one’s actual words, but that was the general gist IMHO.


#62

Seeing as the thread started with a link to Dru Blair’s Tica, this never was a discussion about photorealism in art in general. Seems like you overlooked that initially.

And seeing that as most of the people here are artists of sorts, claiming photorealism to be worthless (in this forum) is really only a form of saying “don’t like it, wouldn’t do it”. I understand that in scholarly circles, not liking something simply isn’t reason enough, that you have to back up your own opinion with the reasoning of others. Which is rather pointless in my mind as there are opinions of all shapes, sizes and flavours in this world, and if one wants to back one’s opinions, one just goes off and digs until a suitable book surfaces.

Theories, movements and ideas are all very nice. But they are only tools. If you respect your hammer too much, you will not be able to use it.


#63

dude read this thread backwards!
it makes you so dizzy… @.@


#64


Quote:

"About this painting
This painting started as an exercise for a portrait workshop I taught in 2005. My previous excersize in portraiture was the Vanessa painting. In order to provide the best reference for my students, I took a digital photograph in my studio of a local model (Tica) with my Nikon Coolpix 8700, then printed copies for each student on my Epson 9600 printer. The goal was to work from reference that provided great lighting, good detail, and accurate skin tones. I intentionally lit and posed Tica in the manner of the old masters, but used contemporary portrait studio elements (such as the smile and white background), to expose the most subtle nuances of her face.

Tica has incredible skin, with a challenging range of colors. As it turned out, the range of colors in her skin proved to be a little overwhelming. Normally, it takes me about 7 or 8 colors to recreate an individual’s skin palette, and I blend those on the board to create many more. However with Tica, I found it necessary to mix around 20 different colors to capture her range of color. There were also a few interesting artifacts introduced by the digital camera such as a blue halo around the earring, but I decided to include them in the final painting, because they seemed visually interesting.

By the time the class ended on Sunday, most students had reached a level of completion equivalent to the third image down on the left of the step by step sequence ( I intentionally omitted many of the step by step photographs because I don’t want to spoil the upcoming magazine article on the creation of this painting). I need to add here that the purpose of my workshops is not to complete a painting, but rather to use the time optimally so that each student learns the techniques and visual skills necessary to create a photorealistic painting. Once I’m convinced that each student has a grasp of a specific feature, we then move on to another area of the face.

After the class concluded, I remained in the studio contemplating Tica’s image. After some deliberation, I decided to test the limits of my visual skills by completing the project painting. The realism of almost all of my previous paintings was compromised by time constraints and deadlines, but I imposed no deadline on myself this time. Nearing completion of the painting, I decided to remove a some elements such as the nap of cloth next to her armpit. This unfinished painting is not without flaws, which are mercifully reduced by the computer screen’s 72 dpi resolution. I could have invested another 50 hours in it, but the improvements would have been subtle, Besides, by then, I was ready to move on to another project."

End Quote

:slight_smile:


#65

I’m usually one to hold my tongue against people like you but I couldn’t allow myself to be silenced after being very disrespectful to this community. I honestly believe that for as educated you are, you are still very stupid. There are better ways to get ur point across…especially without sounding particularly arrogant. I would much rather not say much more to you because I’m sure you’d just throw a long post my way, which, although containing a lot of words…has absolutely no valid point whatsoever.

I have only one more thing to say to you. In the future…it might be prudent to refrain from speaking(or typing…I thought I’d throw that in because you’re too unimaginitive to realize that speaking on the internet is done by typing). Have a Nice Day! Perhaps next u can provide a dissertation on how Nietzche’s theories on Moral Relativism has changed the way we percieve frozen peas. Either way…make sure to check your post for comma splices. Thank you.


#66

I dunno it’s pretty entertaining. Of all replies I liked glenn23’s the best.

As a practicing artist you are really going to hear wierd views alot. It was pleasant to read an answer from someone who writes well.

Cheerio Chris.


#67

LOL!

Yeah, isn’t that what Kinko’s is for anyway? Enlarging photos?
:smiley:

And yet…I’d like to be able to get that level of realism just to say I could do it. Very nice work.

Chuck Close! Yeah, that’s the guy I remember from waaaay back in my college design book. Amazing work there too, at really large canvas sizes.


Mike Garcia
Director
Pencil Head’s Dusk Til Dawn Film Fest
http://www.DuskTilDawnFilmFest.com


#68

It’s well disciplined, but it doesn’t have enough soul. It looks like a glamor shot from the mall. I wish I had that kind of ability, but I would have to make it more fun to look at. I think it needs some more imagination. These guys have truly mastered art, now all they need to do is have fun with it.


#69

I’m sorry that this post grew so long. If you don’t feel like reading the whole thing you can just jump to where I state my opinion in the last paragraph.

When I first saw this guy’s work I was floored. His knowledge of his medium and ability to paint is incredible. I don’t think anybody posting is saying that he isn’t good at what he does. However, there is one thing that is still really bothering me about his work.

He teaches classes . . . and in his classes he has his students paint the same woman from the same photograph. They’re all trying to achieve the same look (realism). At the end of the class I bet he couldn’t tell you which student had worked on which image because they would all the paintings would look so similar.

On the other hand, in my drawing class if you were to line up each student’s work I could walk down the line and tell you who drew what drawing. Even if the subject was the same (as it is in life drawing) each drawing would have a different style, a different interpretation of what the artist saw in front of them. In other words, there would have been something each artist brought into the drawing to make it unique, to make it their own.

I’m not saying that life drawing is art, or that photorealism is not. I’m not here to preach about what is or is not art. I’m just really confused when I ask myself the question: “Are photorealists really creating something of their own, or are they just copying what they see in front of them?”

To me the medium does not make something art. I think it’s pretty ironic that this guy so handily dismisses photography as art because someone uses a machine to render what is in front of them, but at the same time applauds his work as art because he uses his hand to render what is in front of him.

With all that being said, this argument echoes of the controversy that Duchamp caused with his R.Mutt piece and the whole ready-made movement. Is grabbing a mundane commonplace object and sticking it in a gallery really art? Is painting something so realalistic so that you can’t tell the difference between it and a photograph art? I don’t know if it is art, but it sure did/does challenge people’s ideas of what is and is not valid. . . and for it to spawn such a heated discoussion makes me respect his work for what it is.

http://arthist.binghamton.edu/duchamp/fountain.html


#70

i spent a lot of time thinking about how everyone responded to me on this forum. it seems to me now that most of you were interested in squelching what i had to say, which directly contradicts the free-speech which makes all of your own personal art possible. you think i shouldn’t type or speak? then none of us should. just making a point, since you were so passionately described my stupidity without looking at your own first.


#71

Too much time on your hands?


#72

I don’t know what you’re trying to prove, but you keep disrespecting this community which I love.

You spent a month and a half thinking about what we said to come up with that? One would have thought that you with your more highly evolved brain would have figured out that us unsophisticated neophytes would not have been worth the time of day to contemplate a rebuttal.

Instead, it seems to me that you are just attempting to over-compensate for something by comming into a community that you don’t even know and lord over us reasons why you think we are so uneducated and unqualified to give opinions in a public forum.

We almost forgot about you, which would have been beneficial for your sake. But instead you had to come back and remind us just what a pretentious elitist you really are. Way to beat a dead horse Mumau :thumbsup:.

In the future you might want to fix your run-on sentences, spelling, comma splices, punctuation, capitalization, and sentence fragments before you start arguing how much smarter you are than everyone else.


#73

i mostly find it funny how seriously people like you take themselves. it pleases me that as long as i say something critical, you’ll always have a “yo momma” response. thanks for giving me the entertainment i was looking for – a menagerie of people who attempt to reason out of the emotion of anger.

watch the movie twelve angry men and get back to me.

peace, pretenders. may you someday understand what it feels like to be an artist. until then, post on your little internet forum, and make yourselves feel better. above all, make sure you don’t disagree with each other – that makes you all right!

btw, polycount pwns this site. why? because it doesn’t need fancy adds, or bizarre concepts of what it means to really argue toward a point.


#74

WOW! Talk about photorealism! This is the first painting i have seen that has traces of cromatic abberation in it.

Oh and the point of photorealism is not to be where a camera has already been but to picture something where a camera could never be.

I mean, if you where there and had a camera you could just as well take a photo as it would yeld the same resault, would save you the trouble.


#75

Wow, I read a lot of interesting perspectives here.

I would suppose the debate on whether photorealism is justifiable as art or not will endure in perpetuity, and that’s okay.

For those who might be interested in the process, a step by step article on the creation of the “Tica” painting is in this month’s (December) issue of Airbrush Action Magazine.

http://www.airbrushaction.com/AirbrushAction_Magazine.php

Best regards,

Dru


#76

Very true with the hybrid technique. I have run across many artists who use models and photos, not for an exact reference, but an anatomical reference. And, personally I think that artists should be the ones to classify something as art. A friend of mine did a photrealistic native american drawing, and some lady said, “Thats an amazing piece of art, how long did it take you to do?” I’d say that photorealism is a “pleaser” like many other styles of art that have a wow effect on the common viewer. And you are right for the artist to do what they enjoy, heck you wouldn’t catch me drawing anime, but I still respect it as a style; just not one that I use.


#77

The first picture in the thread can be reproduced in a couple of different ways and still look the same.

Old fashioned silver print.

Scanned negatif or digital camera output and then printed on a big Epson Tracer for example.

Third solution : copy it with paint on a canvas.

Whatever solution you choose, the outcome will be more or less identical.

The two first solutions will be quicker though, so why even bother with the third ?


#78

So just out of curiosity, are people who try to create photorealisitc 3D models of people or objects found in the real world (and yes using photos as referance material) considered artists?
Last time I looked in the Choice Gallery there were a few such images in there.


#79

when it all boils down the only thing that matters is originality and creative drive.


#80

Are we doing this again? Wasn’t the last thread about this long enough? :smiley:

I’m at a point in my life right now where I see things in a very different light, essentially taking a big step back and looking at the world as the big picture, instead of having my nose so close to something where I lose objectivity.

This is my current stance on the matter (and all related matters):

  1. The world is gigantic place, and there’s room for all kinds of people and all kinds of tastes. Even if you feel you have better taste/judgement than others, it’s most likely you’re out numbered anyway, as the majority of the human population have uninformed pedestrian tastes, and they really couldn’t care less about the subtleties, politics, struggles, and achievements in your given industry or chosen craft. Does this mean you’re right and they’re wrong? Not really if you go by popularity as the criteria. What about using authority as the criteria? Well, if you’ve been to a lot of museums, particularly modern art museums, you’ll see that just because someone’s a curator or have a masters degree in fine arts does not necessarily mean this person have talent or taste.

  2. With the above established, the only thing I care about is if there are other people like me, with similar tastes, and if the things we collectively love have a lifespan in our industry or chosen craft (because it would be a shame if what we loved can’t survive in our world, while the stuff we detest flourishes and become successful). Fortunately, as obscure as some of my favorite artists, musicians, writers, filmmakers, photographers…etc are, there will always be some that have “made it” and established themselves as successful creative minds in their chosen craft. That, makes me feel reassured that the guys that represent my personal taste is out there, getting exposure, and thus generating more people who might like the same things I do. This makes me happy, because I love sharing my passions with others with similar tastes.

  3. We all have the right to make a living with our passions, talents…etc. It doesn’t matter if you think someone is a hack, or a certain style is wack, or a particular medium is worthless…etc, because there will always be an audience out there for all styles and all levels of talent. Live and let live. Different strokes for different folks. Just be grateful that the stuff you like DO exist in this world, and IS reprented somehow. Maybe the stuff you like doesn’t get nearly as much exposure or success, and you feel there’s an injustice, but guess what? It’s been like that since the beginning of human civilization. The mainstream will always dominate, and the “Rubes” will always be the majority.

  4. Even people with good taste and talent are often forced to do things they can take no pride in, for the simple fact that we all need to make a living. Cut everyone some slack.

  5. Just surround yourself with the things you love, people you care for, and let everybody else live their own life and have their own taste.

And that’s all I have to say about these types of topics at this point in my life.

Peace out.