NOW OPEN!!! OPEN FIGURE DRAWING WORKSHOP 006 with Ron Eyre and Rebecca Kimmel!!

#81

Gee! Thanks, [color=yellow]Glenn and Rebecca![/color]

I’ve been examining these tablets and pens on the URLS that you gave me, and seen the demonstrations. It’s a fascinating concept! I would certainly love to have a go on one.

However, I’m not sure that the cost of buying one would warrant the use I would get out of it. For it to be useful to me for the work that I do - it would need to have a 17" screen - or larger. I have mixed feelings about it:

[color=yellowgreen]Advantages:[/color] Nice and clean - no mess! (lol). One could do hundreds of paintings, and store them all on the puter or on CDs without taking up much physical space. I have to use the attic upstairs to store all my canvasses and portfolios of drawings and watercolours!

For me personally, it would be a new adventure. I think it is a unique (but DIFFERENT) medium to explore. It has it’s own characteristics.

[color=yellowgreen]Disadvantages:[/color] When I say ‘it’s own characteristics’ I mean that literally. Although it perports to be able to simulate watercolour and oil paint, etc., it IS only a simulation, and it CANNOT, at least for me, display the true ‘freshness’ and unique character of water colouring techniques, for example – laying down a wash with paynes grey for a sky, thinning it with water as I progress down the paper, then adding a couple of dabs of yellow ochre, which ‘pushes’ the paynes grey away and works it’s way down the paper a little with the tilt of the paper! Produces WONDERFUL cloud effects! I love to work in different ways with oil paint; can a tablet simulate smearing and scratching the paint – and ‘rolling’ thin lines with a palette knife?

Having said all this, pleeeeeez, pleeeeeez, don’t let me put you off using your tablets! LOL! I CAN see the great advantages of it for ease in your participation with these digital internet workshop sessions, and I applaud it! You are incredibly good at what you do!

LOL! You’ll have to forgive this old ‘codger’ for being ‘set in his ways’! I’m having difficulty keeping up with all this modern technology!

Just one point in question: to Glenn: your painting of me – (with which I’m most thrilled, I have to say!) - doesn’t seem to ‘fit me in’ to the background very well. I look as if I’ve been cast in bronze! Is this intentional?

Ronnie

#82

Hi Ron
I think you will get your money’s worth, and then some, if you buy a tablet, and pen.
You’ll find out, that each method of painting, has it’s advantages, and disadvantages.
Besides, if I have to learn to type, at my age, which is totally new to me, then you
have to learn something new too, that sounds fare to me…LOL…
Rebecca told me you had a sculptural look, and that I should paint you that way, so I
did, but don’t worry I unbronzed you today…you look much better now. I painted you
useing the oil brushes in painter 8, with my pen and tablet. I think you are starting to
fit into the painting better now. Still have a lot of work to do on it, but I think it has
improved. Rebecca will help me improve it even further, I hope,she has that eagle eye.
She see’s things that I always miss. I will post it shortly, as soon as miss spirit dreamer
gets home,still have not learned that part myself…your not the only one new to all this
new age stuff.
Well will talk to you later, and I hope you like the new version of my painting better
Remember, it’s not all the way done yet.
Take Care
Glenn

#83

Hi Rebecca
Did the things you suggested
Toned down colors
Made the bright areas more selective
Painted Ron using the oil brushes in Painter 8
Tried to use the same style as I did on Liang’s dress, Brush strokes etc
Don’t know if I pulled it off successfully or not
Never tried to paint a human figure that way before
“Post Impressionistic”, I guess
Still alot left to do on it
Thanks for the great help and advice.
Could always use some more.
When you get a moment let me know what you think
Take Care
Glenn

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#84

SpiritDreamer,

I like this lots better ~ it feels like the fake stuff has been peeled away ~ and even if the result isn’t as easy to get, you will be more satisfied, I think, working this way ~ I think Ron’s assessment, that the figure looked ‘bronzed’, was quite accurate, and spoke more to the effect of the piece than the substance. I think you’re definitely on the right track now, and just really need to refine those value relationships! It’s all about tweaking at this point. Really try to make certain areas of the figure stand out through subtle dark and light contrast. Don’t overdo ~ just slowly refine the figure. You may want to mask it out / etc. so you are just working on the figure, and not the bkgrd.

Looking good, SD! Definitely keep going with the painting on this. :slight_smile:

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

#85

I’m tempted to purchase one of these tablets. I’ll have to save up for one! Can’t afford one right now. Tell me, though, will this device work with ANY art software? I do not have Photoshop. This would be another expensive item! I DO have Coral Draw and Coral Paint, which have very extensive facilities including a wide range of brushes, pencils, spray-guns, etc, as well as hundreds of shades of colour. It has MANY other facilities also.

#86

Ron,

You don’t HAVE to purchase anything you don’t want. :wink: A tablet does work with any software, you can browse Explorer with it, it is just like a mouse, except more flexible in terms of drawing. It’s basically a skinny mouse. :slight_smile:

It would help with Corel Paint, I suppose, but if you work primarily Traditionally, then why bother getting a Wacom Tablet? I think it’s only worth it if you are planning to do a lot of painting digitally. Otherwise, it will just end up gathering dust. :slight_smile:

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

#87

Hi Ron
Rebecca is right, if you are happy painting the way you do, then that is what counts
the most. But on the other hand, you can experiment with colors, and countless other
things, much more cheaply, and faster, than in the traditional way.Useing the pen and
tablet with the painter programs, allows you much more flexability, and room to explore
at a much cheaper cost. The pen acts just like a brush, the harder you press down with
it on the tablet, the broader the stroke gets, also blends colors, and mixes them right on
the screen as you are painting, Also in painter 8 and 9, the water colors do run and mix,
just like the real deal…MAGIC…you can always apply what you learn while useing painter
to your traditional paintings, and vise versa.
Just thought I would express my thoughts, on the subject in case you were interested.
I have been useing painter, with pen and tablet, for five or six years now, and have
learned a lot more about color ect. than I could have in a traditional manner, do to the
cost of paints and canvas. Painter…tablet…and pen, are just another set of tools that
can be used to your advantage, if you so choose
Take Care, and have a great day Ron
Glenn

#88

Glenn.

I HAVE taken Rebecca’s observation on board - her comment is valid; I don’t want to fork out a lot of dosh on something that may gather dust in the course of time!

HOWEVER! (lol) - having said that, YOUR comments DO make the purchase inviting - this notion of it being able to take the place of a mouse! I suffer at times with wrist ache. I use a roller-ball mouse to do fine adjustments to photographs, etc., using a clone tool and stuff. The other type of mouse I have less control with. Can the pen be used - as with a mouse - to negotiate general computer maneouverings? If I had free arm and wrist movement to pick out items to ‘click’ on using the pen it would be superior to the mouse. Just one question: can the pen drag an object from one place to another? Will I still have to keep the mouse connected to do stuff like that?

LOL! Glenn - I’m not wishing to impose on you much with all this computer technical stuff; I’m sure you want to be getting on with your artwork! this forum should be confined STRICTLY to drawing and painting!

Ronnie.

#89

Hi Ron
The pen can do anything the mouse can do, but better…
It’s nicer, to be able to sit further away from computer
screen, with pen in hand, no cord…and tablet on your lap.
About the same as when you draw, with a pad of paper on
your lap, while sitting in a comfortable chair.
A lot easier on your wrist, and posture, for sure.
Hope I have been helpfull to you in some small way.
It’s the least I can do, in return for your nice poses
Take Care
Glenn

#90

LOL! Thanks, Glenn! I’m getting more and more warmed up to this gadget! It’s just the dosh that worries me! Can’t seem to be able to work it out in English pounds. All prices seem to be in euros! As far as I can make it out it would appear to be around £700 - 800 - just for a 15" screen! Can I ask you … What size is yours … and how much did it rush you for, in dollars? For me the total cost would obviously have to include shipping as well, AND probably a blue chip!

Ronnie.

#91

Hey Ron, :slight_smile:

Surely they sell these in the UK? I would just call up a computer store and ask about it. I’m sure it’s going to be WAY cheaper to buy it there than to order one from abroad. :slight_smile:

Whatever you decide, I hope it works for the best! I do think it would alleviate wrist strain ~ by A LOT. It just depends on how much work you do on the computer.

Cheers, :slight_smile:

~Rebeccak

#92

Ron
Maybe we should be doing all this equipment discussion in private e-mails.
You could modify your profile information to accept private message (on CGTalk)
Or write me at my home e-mail that you can go to from my profile.
(click on my screen name above my parrot avitar and you can select
private message or e-mail)

You shouldn’t need a larger screen to utilize a tablet to draw with. Large screens are nice but til recently we had a 13" monitor and it worked fine. I think now ours is 17" flat screen but we only bought it because we had to buy a whole new computer a year or so ago.
It is always more expensive to buy the screen alone…looks like Dell site has a 17" for 202. pounds
http://accessories.euro.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?sku=35552&c=uk&l=en&cs=ukdhs1&category_id=2999&page=external

Here are a couple Euro/dollar/pound etc converter sites I found through Google search, maybe they would help:
[b][u]http://www.sysmod.com/eurocalc/eurocalc.php[/u][/b]
http://www.x-rates.com/calculator.html
http://finance.yahoo.com/currency?u

It looks like the tablet similar to ours (the small one) gives a cost as 99,99 Euro even though we were going to the site specifying UK (100 Euro seems to be 120 dollars)
[font=Verdana]http://www.wacom-europe.com/int/products/graphire4/index.asp?lang=en&pdx=11

My recommendation? Going to your local computer store, telling them what you are interested in and then asking what is on sale!!

Rebecca is going to put us in the Dog House if we aren’t discussing art on this forum!

Glenn

PS My wife (Mrs Spirit Dreamer) has relatives in Birkenhead!
PSS Let us know if this helps at all and if you have any luck!
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#93

HAHAHAHAHAHA…AAAAHHHH…(breath)…HAHAHA

That’s the funniest thing I’ve read today! reminds me of my friend’s reaction (TOTALLY PC illiterate at the time) to when I was going to back up my stuff onto CD: “Jesus!..don’t BURN it!”

hahahaha…thanks Ron!

#94

Awww, Somhairle,

Everyone’s new to digital stuff at some point…me, LOL, I’ve come to computers pretty late, and while I’m addicted now, I can remember a time when I was completely adverse to them ~ quite the opposite of Ron, who has embraced technology, has his own website, and participates in online forums ~ which I’m highly impressed by! :slight_smile: Ask me about specs and I’ll probably think you’re talking about dirt ~ LOL! :blush:

Hey! And when will you be joining us here for the OFDWs?! :wavey:

Cheers, :slight_smile:

~Rebeccak

#95

Hi Rebecca
Been painting on Ron’s figure. Trying to get more accuracy of muscle placement
without losing the spontenaity in brush strokes. Also put a golden tint on him in
the second piece to see if I could get him to go with the rest of the painting’s colors more.
Working from left of figure to right, light to dark. About 3/4 of the way there, I think.
Head right shoulder and arm in shadow still untouched. Will work on them next.
Different way of painting for me. No tricks just straight painting with oil brush, Painter 8.
Think I am starting to get the hang of it. Feels more comfortable anyway.
Still alot of room for improvement.
Let me know what you think when you get a chance.
Also, is it my imagination or am I the only one on here posting lately?
Have you started #7? I couldn’t find it posted anywhere.
Take care
Glenn

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#96

Hi Rebecca
Finished up most of figure
Can’t get him to have the same expression as photo
Don’t know what I’m not seeing that is making his expression different.
Mouth maybe don’t know
Has a definite character anyway
Angry goes better with surroundings maybe
The last one is an experiment
Puts him center stage, everything else secondary
Has a oneness about it that is lacking in the first one
Colors I guess. Definitely surreal
If I had a story for this one, it would be man contemplating life,
symbolized by dragon head at his feet, and flowers symbol of nature,
is also contemplating death symbolized by skull, and also life after death
symbolized by man on horse with cross coming out of the mouth of death.
The face behind him would be the goddess of nature and the
big male face looking at him, the old testament angry wrathful male god.
Man surrounded by his thoughts of life, death, eternity and mortality.
How’s that for a story?
Good imagination, huh?
Let me know what you think when you get time.
Take care
Glenn

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#97

SpiritDreamer,

Yes, I think things have slowed a bit, :slight_smile: but it’s to be expected ~ people will come and go unpredictably. Hopefully more people will post for OFDW 007, but it’s impossible to know. :slight_smile: No OFDW 007 yet, don’t worry. :wink:

With respect to your piece, watch the proportions of the legs ~ the knees look a bit low. I would also recommend starting to tighten up the painting of the overall figure ~ currently, it looks as though the figure almost has a loose skin, which is not an effect you want. I would also recommend adding a bit of saturation / color to the skin, after you have established your value relationships to a greater degree.

I’m not sure that the man’s face on the right is doing much to help the piece ~ it’s a lot more unfinished than any of the other figures, so you might want to render that a bit more, so it makes sense with the piece.

Keep going, SD! :slight_smile:

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

#98

Hi Rebecca
Me again…
Made radical and subtle changes.
Color, compostition, proportion.
Gave him anger, no doubt left there.
Big face on right, gave anger also.
Might take that one out of picture altogether.
Just have him looking into the emptiness of darkeness.
Don’t know how that will effect composition, yet.
Adjusted his knees, higher now. You were right.
Not sure what you meant about saggy loose skin.
Older people have saggy loose skin after all, don’t they?
Comes to all with the passage of time.
Like the colors better now.
Also made him bigger in composition.
Looks better I think.
Dragon skull smaller also, less distracting.
Still playing with this idea.
Let me know what you think.
You know I really value your opinion, and advice.
Hope your teaching class is going great.
And you’re not getting too many gray hairs.
Take care
Glenn

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#99

Hi, Glenn!

You have my full permission to take away as much sagging loose skin as you like! Hehehehe! Artistic liscence??? (lol).
I’ve loved the way your work had been progressing with all the ‘fleshy’ colours being introduced. However, I can’t understand why you’ve suddenly ladled so much white over the figure! You’ve lost all that colour!
Regarding the head: I can see a hundred and one differences! (lol). Can I suggest you crop and print out the head from both your painting and the original resource photograph? Place them side by side - as I have just done! The head looks squashed downwards! The downward curve of the line through the eyebrows is too severe - distorting the line of the eyes! The head should be taller … straighter: look at the line going up the back! Also the corner of the mouth curves down too much. Sorry Glenn! Trying to be helpfull! Just compare the two images side by side!

Ronnie.

#100

SpiritDreamer,

I think that for some reason, this piece is turning out a bit flat ~ I think you ought to isolate the figure in a separate document, and work it up there. As it is, you’re trying too hard to integrate it into a finished composititon, and as such, I think are possibly blending it in color~wise too prematurely. Can you copy and paste just the figure into a new document, and work on it there against a gray background? I really think this might help you to focus on the figure.

Also, I agree with Ron, I like the face as you had done it before ~ having him look angry is not necessarily adding to the piece, I don’t think ~ the likeness was quite good before ~ if you can move back in that direction, I think that might be help the piece as well. :slight_smile:
Cheers, :slight_smile:

~Rebeccak