Nodal materials editor concerns


#1

As a long-time requester of nodal materials inside Cinema4D, I was keen to try out the new RedShift version, which latches onto Maxon’s node setup. Unfortunately the experience wasn’t what I was expecting! I’ve only been using the setup for a few hours, but there’s some massive problems that need addressing. My concern is that the old xpresso-based tree system is going to be replaced by this at some stage, which would be a big mistake IMO. And I do like nodes in materials & elsewhere - just not like this.

Issues:

  1. Undo doesn’t work. Connection events and moving nodes aren’t considered by undo - so if you accidentally remove a wire, you have to work out which one and reconnect it manually.

  2. Rearranging nodes is also irreversible, so if you use the ‘auto-layout’ then you’re stuck with whatever mess it comes up with.

  3. The nodes aren’t intelligent enough. Compare to cycles, where you can slot nodes into place, here you have to manually work out what to connect to get it to work, even if there’s only one output, and where the node knows what sort of input it wants.
    Cycles:

    RS/Cinema:

  4. They’re unresponsive. In the old tree editor, dragging a slider would be updated in the RenderView. In Cinema/Redshift, nothing updates until you let go of the slider - then the node previews update, finally the IPR updates.
    Tree view:

    Node view:

  5. They’re buggy as hell. Trying to record the clips above Cinema froze constantly, to the point where I’ve given up testing any more.

Hoping some of this can be fixed. Cheers - Chris


#2

I feel you, holded back for the update a moment thought this will take a wile,

my biggest concern is that the new node editor won’t accept xpresso, which is a big thing for advanced shaders in redshift.

regradless of the shortcommings I was pleasently surprised about the support in the redshift forum,

I found a bug in 3.0.9 and its alsready fixes in 3.0.12 now … so my sugesstion is please post this in the Redshift forum they are willing to improofe and do good,


#3

Yup I’m going to post whatever bugs I find to RS - the devs there are great, really responsive. My worry though is that they’re only plugging into whatever access Maxon gives them - a lot of the issues exist in the physical node editor too.


#4

Don’t understand how this is even allowed.


#5

Inserting nodes in wires does work in general, the node needs to be aware of this though. Maybe do a report to RS which nodes do not work.


#6

It’s still early days I believe. Also, I don’t think you can tie xpresso into the node editor yet, and that’s a big downside. I find myself using xpresso with RS quite a bit to animate various parameters and such.

edit Just noticed this was already mentioned by Mogh.


#7

I really do hope that this is ‘version 1’ and the Dave McG era is bringing a change in approach where features are continuously refined - not just delivered 80% done and then abandoned for x years.

It’s frustrating - but I’ll be another that will have to continue with the ‘Classic’ Redshift Shader Graph. The new Nodes interface is so much better to work with in so many respects - yet, because it’s missing key components and has these major workflow issues - amongst others, the Classic Xpresso editor still comes out on top.

Roll on version 2 - asap please : )


#8

The major issue I immediately had with Redshift nodes is that the node previews can’t update when the Rs Renderview is active, and the node previews are only a very rough indication of the visual result (Kostas - the Rs developer said this). Combine the two and I had to disable the node previews to work effectively. That’s immediately a very severe dent in the functonality of the node editor.


#9

The issue is that you don’t arrive with a so obviously unfinished product. This reminds me of approach to Prorender