NewTek CORE discussion and information

#601

Here he comes to save the day… (Cageman)

Come on cage… Did I insult you? No need for that…

How am I being a troll? cause I dont agree 100% with you and meg.

Yous act like I dont use LW every single day… and am missing something very obvious!

If you saw more then I in that video, so be it…
I am sure my knowledge and talent will eventually catch up to you and megs…LOL

But if you saw so much greatness in that vid… there is really no need to hide it. Proclaim it to the 3d community… we would all love to hear.

#602

well, i think it might seem confusing as NT hasn’t made a list of what we are about to see.
the info they posted is basically pretty much put “here and there”…

however, I advice you to take a second and third look.
and when you do, remember Core is in beta and more videoes will be revealed.

#603

Not very likely… LOL

#604

double post

#605

I get offended when you state things that isn’t true. I don’t feel unprofessional just becuse NewTek has issues with getting a video out. Shit happens, and if the guys also post an official appolygy I have the decency to respect that.

But if you saw so much greatness in that vid… there is really no need to hide it. Proclaim it to the 3d community… we would all love to hear.

Well… lets take the browser in a window demo and the sencence “…and anything else for that matter”. Combine what you see and what you hear. Now, think about CORE used with another software like MODO. What is the possibilities with that (I’m sure you’ll figure it out).

Take the third party SDK… no wait… it’s the same SDK that the devs at NT use to develop for CORE. What does that mean?

Python… take any Python command and paste it into any attribute input (or any other input field in CORE). Now…do the same but for a complete script. What does that indicate? (actually, that is something you can’t do in Maya as far as I know).

Gestures is something I’ve only seen for FireFox (different mouse gestures executes different commands). I have not seen it in Maya.

History and modifirestacks are separated. Great… now I can undo animation actions without fearing to screw up my modifierstack (accidently undo those as well).

History is represented as actions (or as a different stack). This means that you can save the scene, close CORE, open CORE, load the scene, and UNDO (same type of technology found in SpeedEdit). Try that in Maya…

Hope those hints are something to get you started…

#606

wow… you think your pretty special, dont ya?

to cage…

I think we are on 2 different pages here… I dont doubt what WILL be possible with the core.
There is a big big difference between possible and implemented.

Like I said… I think the core will be a giant step forward. I just dont believe the dev is that far along yet… And believe me, I am fine with being wrong about that. (if I am)

And yes, I noticed all of what you and godalodon have.

I respectfully disagreed about NT being unprofessional reflecting on its users. It makes the software look second rate which in turn makes the software user look second rate…IMO

And what the F… I already said I was upgrading, So stop riding me!!!

#607

Jeebus ghod no, please don’t add that to Maya. She crashes enough on me as it is. ^_^;

I finally waded through all the complaining and saw the video on vimeo (thanks to whomever upped that) and I have to say I’m excited. I’m curious to see how the Python stuff is integrated (really need to be able to record macros as Python code, kind of how Maya has the MEL window with the ability to “Echo All Commands”) – if that happens, I can see the betas of Core sneaking into production workflows. Provided they’re stable. But while I had to wait for 9.6 before I could use LW on a day to day basis, I have to say it’s extremely stable for me now both on my Mac and on my PC, and that gives me hope for Core.

To everyone complaining about the web browser thing: You’re obviously not TD’s. A while back Maya had something similar, where you could implement an IE window inside Maya. (IIRC this never worked on Mac, for the obvious reasons.) This sounds dumb until you realize that you can also implement Flash inside that IE window, and use Flash to make a character picker or to design other kinds of UIs. Character picker UIs are a serious pain in the ass to write in Maya (not difficult, but tedious), so the folks who figured out how to do them in Flash were considered Most Excellent.

I personally am going to pay the subscription fee now so I can get in and get my say on tools like that. Imagine embedding a Flash movie in a web browser window inside a scene file, and using it to choose parts of a character! Or having some sort of round-tripping situation where you could save a model and have it go straight into a process that produces a Unity 3D web player bundle, which is then loaded automatically in the LW window for previewing? Or people using Papervision with the Flex toolchain could make models and press a button to compile them into SWFs, then reload the page for a view in Lightwave.

What I’m most curious about, though, is how the Mach-O bundle plugins are going to be compiled. I hope that Newtek ships a variant of GCC so that we can cross-compile plugins for all platforms instead of having to build on three separate OS’s, then lipo them together. Being able to “compile” python scripts would be nice too, a la how 3DS Max allows compiled MaxScripts.

Oh, and the other big question: how far along is Worley with FPrime Core? :smiley:

#608

And you extrapolating that from a sub par video makes you look third rate and worse.
No wonder you got banned form the Newtek site.

#609

So, the separated modifierstack and historystack are not implemented? How the hell does he show it if it’s not there?

And yes, I noticed all of what you and godalodon have.

Then, how come you are not excited? There are features shown that doesn’t exist in the the “industry leading” tool called Maya.

Trolling once again comes to my mind. But I’ll refrain from calling you a troll this time.

:slight_smile:

 I respectfully disagreed about NT being unprofessional reflecting on its users. It makes the software look second rate which in turn makes the software user look second rate...IMO

Well… once upon a time I felt just like you… then I realised that doing good stuff with LW would reflect upon me and noone else, and thus, things NT does reflects upon them, and not me. From being “teased” and “made fun about” because I use LW, by my actions I’ve proven that LW can be very powerful in the right hands, and nowdays I havn’t recieved any let down comments by people who generaly thinks that LW stinks. The stench actually comes from them, because they don’t know better.

:slight_smile:

And what the F... I already said I was upgrading, So stop riding me!!!

I’m not here to make you buy CORE. I’m here because you shown some apparent lack of observation. Wether or not you buy CORE is non of my concern. Everyone has the right to their own desicion. I just wanted to point to you that, yes… the very limited demo of CORE managed to show at least two features not present in “the industry leading” Maya.

#610

Ah…yes… now that you mention it, it makes sense why he chose to use a webbrowser in that part. I’m familiar with the concept in Maya, but never actually used it. The cool thing though, is that many databases or even renderfarm applications are used via webbrowsers. There isn’t really an end of possibilities to what you can tie into CORE through a webinterface alone.

:slight_smile:

#611

No, I think sub par video makes the software I use look third rate… And it does!

Cageman,
I think you put to much on what MAYA can or cant do!
They showed some stuff, but I worry more about how tools get implemented, and that wasnt shown(well). I have an open mind and I am excited, I would just like to see more on the workflow end…

#612

It’s about architecture… the very reason why Maya is where it is now. But of course, you may prefer bolt on solutions without any thoughts on the future?

EDIT: And yes… with a good architecture, good tools will come naturaly. Just look at Modo and the very well thought out architecture for modeling. They wouldn’t be in that position if it wasn’t for a very solid architecture to stand on.

I think you underestimate the importance of a good architecture…

EDIT: Architecture being the buzzword for today!

:slight_smile:

#613

…just made a short keyword list,…

Core has a new C++ codebase from ground up
Core is fully multithreaded, multiprocessor and GPU aware
Core integrates Modeler and Layout (or a seperate Modeler like before, if you want to)
Core integrates Python, so now we have a good foundation for doing things close to Maya MEL
Core has a new user interface that makes you work in a flexible way, alla XSI
Core has a UI that lets you choose the look of the UI, making things easy on your eyes
Core has a new .lws format based upon COLLADA, this should make things easier for you
Core gives way more power to 3rd parties to write more complex plugins
Core unifies the animation, shading, lighting and rendering. (too hard to explain in on sentence)
Core has Stacking, you can change the modeling attributes at a later time, pretty much like 3DMax
Core can load a browser inside LW. Great for watching video tutorials inside LW +more
Core includes instancing
Core Hardcore makes it easy for you to discuss what features you want/ want to have improved in LW
Core makes it way more fast/ easy for programmers to write new e.g. Modeler tools, giving you more
Core will finally solve the weightmap/skinning problem we have had in layout.

Add to this the new CA 9.6 features
-Joint bones
-EASY Stretchy bones (not like Maya, where I have to write expressions to make it work)
-EASY Cartoon muscles on bones

Add to this the good old plugins
-FPrime, a previewer that no other app can match
-HDinstance, a BILLION objects? no problem! (give me an app that match that)
-LWCad, makes it possible for you to make those buildings in 1-2-3
-InfiniMap, for unlimited size texture resolution in LW. (Maya has a 4098 res. limit, sucks.)
-I posted more info on what’s possible inside LW here [LINK]

Add to this what we still haven’t seen

I use Maya, but I’m disapointed, over here, I only use Maya as it is industry standard.
don’t get me wrong, it has sides that rock, Dynamics, MEL, now Animation Layers, Structure,
but please don’t get me started on it’s lacks, the list will be loong :surprised

I agree with you on the LW marketing part though,… :slight_smile:

#614

This is another interresting aspect with an open software such as Maya or, apparently, CORE.

Noone is going to dictate to you the workflow. You can design your own workflow for any given task. In classic LW you are often forced into doing certain things a specific way… forget that! You, as a user, should be able to design the way you want to work.

So, in essence, whatever NewTeks shows in forms of workflow, you’ll always be able to design your own.

#615

It stopped working at some point IIRC… and it’s not cross-platform. At the moment I use a series of Python scripts to generate my character GUIs, another reason I’m looking forward to Python in LWC.

The cool thing though, is that many databases or even renderfarm applications are used via webbrowsers. There isn’t really an end of possibilities to what you can tie into CORE through a webinterface alone.

:slight_smile:

Dude, I hadn’t even thought of that. Renderfarm submissions aside (and man, is that cool), I know of quite a few larger studios that use PHP-based asset management solutions to collaborate with out-of-town freelancers. Saving the file and sending it in for dailies all from within LWC sounds good to me.

#616

Thats kinda what I am getting at… If its as open as I want it to be then things are all good, but that video didnt quite show me how open it is.

I have questions like… Are the nodes going to be able to be grouped/compounds? The way it is now I have 5 screens worth of nodes with a few ins and a few outs and I am always stuck looking at 50 unnecessary nodes. They didnt show how that kinda stuff was going to be set up.

Thats what I mean by workflow…
also, if they want to keep 90% of their users they are going to have to design a set workflow (or 3rd parties)… Cause a “core” in the hand of most LWers will get them nowhere…

I am sure you know more about whats coming then I… I believed you in that first post you quoted me in…
I still have a prob with the whole “core reveal” thing! Its just unnecessary, and constant with them! But its in the past, lets see whats next?

#617

-HDinstance, a BILLION objects? no problem!

I hope the instancing is far more powerful then hd instance. I dont mean poly amount, I mean things like placement, deformation, mdd play back…

#618

yup,

my biggest wish is to see MDD playback, as it would be great for crowds.

(and hopefully http://www.shoot3d.biz/ comes along to add fast easy motion capture)

#619

Yes…
and this is the root of what I am getting at with all of my wining. There are things for ME that need to be. And this is one of them! This feature should not be implemented any other way! (NT if your listening)… We should be able to instance objects and vary the mdd play back based on texture, weight map, deformer, whatever…

I just did a project with a field of grass and flowers growing, and this would have been the most efficient way of doing this, but I had to hack the crap out of LW just to get good results! And I was on the brink of crashing LW cause of poly count.

#620

(and hopefully http://www.shoot3d.biz/ comes along to add fast easy motion capture)

Thats interesting… havent seen that yet.