Network Rendering


#1

Place your vote above. What network rendering solution do you prefer to use with LightWave? Plain old LWSN is included for all you alpha nerds. That said, I think it’s interesting what NewTek has to say about ScreamerNet in Lightwave’s online documentation. Straight from the horses mouth:

    [i]"If you're familiar   with NewTek lore, you'll remember the speedy (for its day) computer prototype   called Screamer. This is back in the [i]Seaquest[/i]   and [i]Babylon 5[/i] years when LightWave   studios were cranking out TV visual effects on render farms of Amiga 4000's.   It was from these days that ScreamerNet was born. Though many who have   toiled to set up ScreamerNet would swear (as in curse) that the title   has more to do with the resulting mental state. [/i] [i]Honestly, the   set up of ScreamerNet can be tedious and the command lines sound a bit   like a cat coughing up a hairball; but when you have ScreamerNet running   and you're churning through frames in record time, you'll be screaming   for joy.[/i]
    
     [i]Note: ScreamerNet is limited in its features.   If you are a serious studio or just need more features and flexibility   when rendering scenes, you should check out third party rendering programs   that are more powerful and feature laden."[/i]
    
               Below are some other render controllers which were not included in the poll. I'm limited to 10 options in the poll, so I choose the ones I felt were most prevalent. This list will grow as folks mention additional software in this thread. I'm adding them here, in the first post, so people don't have to dig through the entire thread to find all of the network rendering options they have available to them. That's assuming this thread grows, which it may or may not. One can never tell.
          
   [Amleto](http://www.nodalideas.com/)
 [Deadline](http://www.franticfilms.com/software/products/deadline/overview/)

Remote Matador
Muster
Sharelight
Smedge

          I would also encourage you to share why you use what you use.
     
     Where I work we use ButterflyNetRender. It was choosen by a gentleman who used to be our lead animator. I recently evaluated Mule 1.5 and, while I do like some aspects of it, such as it's attractive UI and how easy it is to set up and use, I do not feel that it's as robust as Butterfly. Also, Liquid Dreams is pretty good about releasing updates to Butterly on a regular basis. I can't say the same for Mule.
         
         - Dustin

#2

Interesting poll. It’s a shame that Newtek hasn’t done anything about the net renderer. It’s been a sore spot for years. The free render nodes are one of the big selling points for lightwave, they really need to make this feature easy and painless right away.

You did forget one that is pretty decent called Amleto www.nodalideas.com
I haven’t been able to get the new version to work, but the previous version worked pretty well.


#3

Yeah I think this poll will be useful to anyone who’s interested in setting up a farm for LightWave, but isn’t sure where to begin. Thanks for mentioning Almeto, I hadn’t heard of that one before. Hopefully others will do the same.

  • Dustin

#4

we use deadline here although to be honest its not the simplest thing to setup or even submit stuff to render. it also seems to be a nightmare when lightwave is updated. i think that as it handles lots of other software its more the “jack of all trades” rather than a joy to use.

i’ve tried amleto in the past and found it to be very easy to setup and a breeze to use, as and when it comes to updating our little system i’ll suggest this.

n


#5

Thanks Dustin, I should have set up a poll before.

Interesting to hear your experiences with Mule, I was almost set on getting it because of the ease of set up & price. BNF seems to have a large fan base but it doesn’t seem to offer anything extra that I’d need for the extra price…can you explain a little about how it seems more robust?


#6

Great thread/poll. I’ve just recently built some machines to start my renderfarm. Presently I’ve only attempted LWSN, with not the best results. So I am interested in seeing some of the pros & cons of some of the 3rd party ones by those who use them.


#7

Nik,

Thanks for mentioning Deadline. I took a look at some of the screen shots for it, and it looks to be a very feature-rich solution. When things get slow at work I like to download evaluation versions of network rendering software I haven't tried yet and give it a go. I think I'll do that with Deadline next time things slow down here. All that said, it seems to be relatively expensive as they charge on a per-node basis with a sliding price scale based on the size of your farm. At $130 per node, that's $1300 USD if you have 10 nodes. And they charge extra for support. Ouch. I wonder if their pricing scheme considers a "node" to be a computer or a CPU. If you have a quad core machine on your farm, would you have to pay $520 to utilize all four cores in Deadline? Again, the screen shots look extremely impressive though.

Stephen,

Regarding Mule, I first attempted to evaluate it back in June (2007). Unfortunately I wasn't able to do so because we were already using LightWave 9.2, and Mule 1.0 (the only version out at the time) did not yet support LightWave 9.2. Then, early in July, I received the following message in a newsletter from Epicsoft: [i]"[/i][i]epicsoft and MULE are sad to announce to the LightWave community that due to the exponential evolution of technologies & high costs, MULE 2.0 development and launch have been put on hold indefinitely for restructuring and re-evaluation."[/i] Then, a little less than a month later, when I was at Siggraph, I heard the announcement that LightWave 9.3 was being released. Things were not looking good for Mule; it didn't look like they were able to keep up with the changes and challenges they were faced with. Reading the Mule forums, I could see that Mule users were lamenting that Mule 2.0 had be so long overdue. None of these events gave me a particularly warm and fuzzy feeling about the idea of commiting my render pipeline to Mule. Then in September, Epicsoft released Mule 1.5. I recently got a little free time at work and I evaluated it. My impression was that it had a lot going for it. Mule has a very nice GUI, it's very easy to set up and use, Epicsoft provides a set up tutorial video to help you get started, and at $125 USD for unlimited nodes you can't beat the price. One of my lesser concerns with the current version of Mule (1.5) is that it only has camera options for classic cameras. They claim that Mule supports all camera types from LightWave, but you cannot make last minute adjustments to, say, a perspective camera. This may change if and when they release version 2.0, who knows. I'm also not particularly impressed that Mule is only for LightWave. It's not all together uncommon to see render controllers which will facilitate a pipeline that includes multiple software packages (3ds max, LightWave, Maya, XSI, etc). If you work at a medium or large company, odds are you're not just using one animation package. I also wasn't too keen on the fact that Mule doesn't include any monitoring software so you can keep an eye on your renders from your workstation. But, far and away, my largest concern with Mule is their spotty record with releasing updates. When you choose a network rendering solution, that's an investment in both time and money. There's likely doing to be some bugs to work out during the transitional period when you first install the software on your farm. This can hold up projects and effect deadlines if things aren't done properly. I don't think anyone in a professional environment wants to gamble on a software that may or may not continue to have the resources and/or desire to release timely updates as changes in animation software and the industry take effect.

I’m actually a little surprised that ButterflyNetRender is so popular. I come from a 3ds max background, so I’m used to Backburner coming with my animation software. Backburner is far from perfect, but it supports scan line, Mental Ray and third party renderers, it’s easy to set up, and it has pretty much every feature I need. So going from that to ScreamerNet was a bit of a culture shock. Honestly I’ve never even used vanilla LWSN. I read about it in the docs, read about people’s impressions of it in forums, and that was enough to tell me I should find another solution. BNR is the first one we’ve really committed to. I found the learning curve rather steep for getting it set up and getting all the kinks worked out. It could do it blindfolded now, but it took me a while to get to this point. Liquid Dreams is very good about releasing regular point releases, and they are currently on version 4.01 of BNR. Butterfly allows for full control of all camera types, output, scene priority, and loads of other things. It supports 3ds max, LightWave, VRay, Maya RenderMan, and XSI.

Basically Mule is simple, but that simplicity comes at a cost - you’re sacrificing some fatures that you could otherwise get in another solution. ButterflyNetRender is fairly feature rich and, therefor, more complicated. I honestly don’t feel that one is “better” than the other, they simply appeal to two different consumer basis. For the freelancer who is using only LightWave to create 3D content, Mule would be a fantastic solution. If your needs go beyond that, I would keep looking.

As an interesting side note, about a year ago I called Zoic Studios, arguably one of the most widely known LightWave houses, and asked them what they use. One of their producers informed me that they use Rush.

  • Dustin

#8

This is an interesting thread and it’s a pity people are not exactly answering in flocks, as I am really interested in knowing the goods and bads of each system, easyness of instalation/setup of those generic rendermanagers regarding Lightwave AND other platforms, etc.

Personally I used Lightnet since 1997/8 in the 5.6 days. This kept working perfectly and doing everything I needed. I realize that those modern render managers have a ton of statistics and funcions but the main useful functions were available with Lightnet: managing scenes priority, assign them to groups and to specific computers, etc. So it was pretty easy to throw major renderings to specific machines, assign fast previews to some others, and even throwing dozens of scenes it was working great as long as we planned ahead.

So, I used Lightnet from one machine (yes, still very usefull on only one machine!) to 40+ Everything runned pretty smooth, even the crash recovery system and verification system…

Unfortunatelly we had several Lightwave revisions in the last few years and zero updates in Lightnet. So latelly it is not working correctly on me and causing much more headaches than solving problems. Sometimes I cannot get the remote nodes to update correctly and worse of all, a pop up window comes up from time to time stating “Integer division by 0” or something on those lines, filling up the screen until it just crashes or mess everything up.

So, I was looking for some replacement: one that would not cost a million dollars (like those that cost hundreds $ per node) and that would serve other rendering jobs as well, like XSI, Fusion, etc

If people could share their experience with those renderfarm managers it would be very welcomed.


#9

hey dustin,

we use deadline because we also use max, combustion and after effects. i have tried a few different systems an although deadline works well. it is a pain to setup and isn’t the most friendly thing to use with any of the software.

we have 6 dual cpu machines running as 6 nodes. so i’ll assume that each quad core machine will be a node.

it looks like we will go with amleto in the future (just for lightwave) the split frmae, web interface an REALLY easy setup is well worth the tiny price

n


#10

VirtualFM,

That’s interesting information regarding Lightnet. Is this an isolated problem you’re having or is the whole Lightnet community having similar issues when attempting to use Lightnet with newer versions of LightWave?

Many of the solutions that have been mentioned so far are only for LightWave, but if you’re interested in having one queue manager to rule them all, the ones that appear to support multiple applications are:

ButterflyNetRender
Deadline
Muster
Qube!
Rush
Smedge

The software titles in the poll, as well as the running list in my first post are all active links to the web pages for the software. I linked them up so people wouldn’t have to dig around on the web for all this stuff. I would encourage you to visit each page and see which one suits your specific needs, depending one the software you use.

We have a guy at work that really likes to use After Effects, so I started reading the Adobe docs on network rendering. It sounds like their native system for doing it is pretty lame, and it’s going to be kind of a hassle for him to have to make sure no 3D jobs are being run before he submits anything, since it’s not all in one interface. Again, we use ButterflyNetRender. It supports all the major 3D software, but no compositing apps. So I can certainly understand your desire to have it all housed under the same solution.

Nik,

Good to know. I’ve been trying to figure out which aspects of LightWave are multi-threaded. I had assumed that LWSN was multi-threaded, but I did a test this morning on a dual core laptop. Check out the attached images. ButterflyNetRender’s client software lets you set how many “nodes” you want on each client machine by means of a simple spinner. When I had it set to 1 node, only one core was being used. This indicates to me that LWSN is not multi-threaded at all. When I set that client to 2 nodes, both cores were used. What does that mean? It means that you can’t have more than one processor working on one frame at a time using LWSN. That said, if I’m rendering a large format image, BNR will do frame splitting, whereby each node tackles a strip of the image. Once all strips are rendered, BNR will stitch the whole image together for you. I’m sure you could do that with smaller images too, like NTSC or PAL frames, but I don’t think most people are inclined to use a feature like that on regular video frames. I think most people are expecting multi-threading.

Personally I think it’s pretty lame that 1 node = 1 core.

  • Dustin

#11

i think you end up running lwsn twice on each machine (for duel cpus)

it then splits the render between both cores

deadline doesn’t do split single frame renders as i recall, amleto does however
(i feel like an amleto evangelist at the mo :slight_smile: )

n


#12

Well if you look at that second image I posted, you can see that there are definatley two instances of LWSN running, but the top one says it’s rendering frame 1 and the bottom one says it’s rendering frame 2.

  • Dustin

#13

LWSN is multithreaded… Here is what you need to do:

Create a new shortcut for Layout on your desktop, edit the configpath so that when you open that particular shortcut, LW will load the .cfg-files from the same path LWSN does. Open Render Globals and set the Multithreading to the same number as you have cores/processors. Close LW (saves the config).

Run a single instance of LWSN and you should see that it multithreads.

Ohh… and I prefer Muster. :slight_smile:

EDIT: If you have a quad core, you could either set Multithreading to 4 and run a single instance of LWSN, or set Multithreading to 2 and run two instances of LWSN where each instance will render on two cores each, or set Multithread to 1 and run 4 instances of LWSN to render a frame/core.


#14

There are people that mention other problems, there are people that say that they never encounter this problem and everything is running smooth.

I just tried it again with a test scene, and for the record the error message is actually “Integer Overflow”. I remember I had this before, some years ago, and at the time I could get rid of it by going into “Options” and mess around with the “Check interval for Screamer and remote commands”. But this time I can’t get rid of the damn thing.

Here’s an attachment. Those keep accumulating until it reaches the bottom-right corner. As those consume memory, it comes to a point where it crashes or hangs (don’t remember well)


#15

See that’s what I’m talking about. I did a quick search on Google for “lightnet integer overflow” and got a few forums hits, but it sounds like the few people who recognize the problem just chalk it up to a random bug that nothing can be done about. That’s why you’ve got to break it down in to elements of importance when you’re deciding what you’re going to use on your farm:

Price - What is your budget?

GUI Features - What buttons, do-dads, other functionality are you dead set on having?

Software Supported - This depends entirely on your pipeline

Technical Support - This is huge in my book. What support options do they offer? They may have a free forum, or phone support you have to subscribe to. Depending on your budget and how flexible your clients are, paying for the faster phone support may well be a good investment.

Revision History - How many versions and point releases have they released? They usually have a “news” section on their website that will show you how often they release updates. How on-the-ball are they when new versions of 3D animation software are released, or when bugs are recognized? If your network rendering software has been keeping you from upgrading to the latest and greatest animation software for a while because they haven’t made the necessary updates, no matter what their reasons, then it might be time to jump ship.

None of these factors is more or less important than the other. My method is to email the company that makes the software and ask some intelligent questions. Then I wait to see how long it takes them to respond and how thorough and accurate their answers are. That gives me a gauge of what dealing with their tech support will be like if I buy their product. Personally, I don’t like it when my only “support” option is a Yahoo forum. Depending on the user base, it could literally take days that I don’t have for someone to reply to my query, and there’s no guaranteeing that the response I get will be a helpful one. I usually won’t invest in software made by one guy in his grandma’s basement. Especially not when my paycheck depends upon it being reliable; maybe for a widget or text editor, but not my network rendering software :slight_smile:

  • Dustin

#16

On the Mac side, Renderfarm Commander is really the only way to go. Once it’s set up - which is nearly 100% automated - it is seamless, flawless and fast.

I once had a project for a theatrical trailer that comprised about 600 “2k” (2048x1536) frames in multiple scenes, with heavy use of volumetrics, reflections, image maps, motion blur, etc. I had to have it done “by Monday”, BUT, I had to be away that weekend. I set up RFC to use (at that time) four Dual G5 Macs, queued up all the scene files in the RFC manager, hit “GO” and left for the weekend. (Gulp…) When I arrived home 48 hours later, RFC was still chugging away on the last few scenes, and all the renders were perfect!

As far as the Multithreading thing… Bruce Rayne, who created RFC, recommends using an RFC “Node” for each Core of your CPU. So, with 4 Dual G5 Macs (2 render nodes per G5 x 4 G5’s), I was able to render 8 frames in approximately the SAME time as if I rendered 1 identical frame on one Dual G5 straight out of LW (F9 render). In RFC, you can also set a “multithreading” number for EACH core/node, which can speed up certain renders even more!

That said, I have pretty much migrated over to C4D, and the speed difference in both my work-flow AND render times has allowed me to sell my Mac “renderfarm”! I love LW, I really do, but C4D is SO much faster to use and the renderer is WAY faster than LW, yet the quality of my work has not suffered in any way. The only thing I miss about LW is the super smooth motion blur…


#17

Yeah RFC looks really nice from the screen shots I’ve seen. Alas, I don’t own a Mac :slight_smile:

  • Dustin

#18

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.