Messiah Project Log - Mech by Layer01 - WIP

#1

Hi, this is the first of my experimental project logs :applause:
My name is Peter, i’m a student at the Australian National University, and i seem to always end up doing things like this hehehe :stuck_out_tongue:
i’m very new to messiah and animation in general, but hopefully that will change with the help of these logs :slight_smile:

  this is the thread with the ["rules"](http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=309964) But of course i cant enforce them so they are more like suggestions :deal:
  
  so without further todo here is the first in what i hope might be many of these.
  
  Mech Project Log
  
  
  [img]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y244/Layer01/Project-screen-shot.jpg[/img]
   
   here is the scene file for those interested: [Here](http://files.filefront.com/Messiah_robotzip/;4617147;;/fileinfo.html)

update 1[size=2] - objects parented to bones instead of using MetaEffectors
update 2 - went back to using MetaEffectors, rig is set up and working now

   [/size][color=DeepSkyBlue]Statment of intent:
   [color=LightBlue][size=2]I intend to rig and animate this mesh with the aid of MetaEffectors to keep the solid look that is needed for this type of model.
   i aim to learn more about using MetaEffectors, Commands, and organising assets.
   [/color][/size]
   [/color]
   Things i've learnt so far:

  • MetaEffectors are vertex based

  • To use Direct weights (under the bone block)

  • keep bones properly oriented

  • The lag i the leg mesh is not caused by other bones affecting the mesh, it is the MetaEffectors

  • To stop the lag in the leg mesh a value higher than 30 needs to be entered. might be lower but less than 20 and it starts playing up again.

  • messiah draws its items from the top to bottom, therefore if you parent an item to a bone it is below that bone in the list -> the bone gets overdrawn

  • instead of parent make a variable and fill in MoveTo (object,bone,1,1)+AlignTo(Object,Bone,1,1)

  • using the * key on the effectors to duplicate them save MASSIVE amounts of time so i dont have to scale them, set them all to “all connected” position them near where a want then etc etc…

    Problems:

  • messiah draws its items from the top to bottom, therefore if you parent an item to a bone it is below that bone in the list -> the bone gets overdrawn [color=PaleGreen][EDIT] this problem is still there in that i haven’t fixed it, but i’m now no longer useing the method that caused it, which was parenting geo to bones, i am now using the original meta effector method. (page 2-3 has more details on this)[/color]
    [color=Pink]- none so far, but more to come soon lol

    Please comment on anything at all, as i’d love to hear any tips, tricks and/or thoughts you may have on how i can improve what it is i’m doing.
    [/color]

#2

Fantastic idea. Wish I was using messiah at the moment but to busy with work. :sad:

#3

Oh thank god. lol :wink:
when i got up this morning to see 50 + views for each post and no replies i though…“ah crap, i’ve really missed the mark this time”
thanks for breaking the awekward silence :thumbsup:

#4

– this is a good effort. Keep us updated and we’ll be here when you need help. People might also have questions on your project… so post up frequently!

:thumbsup:

#5

ok, here’s a little update.

still having mondo troubles with the MetaEffectors and their influence over the mesh. i’ve set it to direct weighting under the bone deform tab, but i get a wierd lag in the mesh. i cannot understand why, according to the docs the bones should be sourcing all their weight data from the MetaEffectors and they are all set to “All connected”

see the lag in action in this shot

i’m sort of stuck on this one problem now lol, and its become a sort of Stubborn battle for me to get it working.

#6

Ok after a bit of testing i still cant get rid of the lag, slip or whatever in the leg mesh.
I set all bones that had no effectors on them to a slip of 1. and i still got the problem.
it seems to be something to do with the Min Max values in the Effector block, but i cant seem to solve it by plaing with the numbers, a 1 min and 1 max just makes the whole mesh deform, and if i turn them off i loose the effectors influence…this is starting to drive me crazy lol.

i’m starting to think that maybe the “all connected” mode is buggy or not working properly. but i cant believe i’m the first person to do a non organic animation in messiah. so surely someone must come accross similar problems.

[color=Red]NEWS FLASH!
[size=2][color=Pink]OK i was about to give up for today when i got angry at it and entered 5000 in the max field (0 in min and scale to max min is on) and what the duce…it worked! :bounce:
now 5000 might be a tad high, but seems when you get above 20-30+ it works.
so thats a big YESSS from me :thumbsup:
and one bit of info to add to the learnt stuff hehehe.
[/color][/size] [/color]

#7

Great to see this - I don’t know how you find the time?! Keep it up!

#8

Hey Peter, the problem with your metaeffector influence is that you have some bones that haven’t any weight assigned to them, thus they take influence over the whole mesh, on top of the weighted bones. You should assign an effector to every bone in your scene, this should solve your problem.

#9

even with direct weighting on?
ok thanks i’ll keep that in mind as i finish “MetaEffecting” the mech :smiley:

#10

Make your skeleton. Disable the influence of bones on the mesh of the robot.

parent each piece of the robot to the corresponding bone, keeping the orientation and position.

Dont worry about meta effectors. you will save yourself alot of time…

#11

You got Joe Cosman CDs on metaeffectors?

#12

Is that adressed to me?

I dont understand why weight and metaeffectors are even in the picture, even if you do hafve something on your mechanical mech that deforms rather then pivots, most of the rig can be just parent based and save you ALOT of time and effort.

#13

I was going to suggest this to Peter too, but the objects go all over the place when I parent it to the bone.

Stooch, is there something like ‘parent in place’ in Messiah? So when I parent something it will not follow the parent’s transformation/rotation.

I’ve been dying to know how to do this in Messiah.

Thanks!

#14

I always thought weightmapping was for organic stuff… and Mechs like these are better off with parenting.

But I want to see someone pull it off anyway, so hats off to you Peter. :thumbsup:

#15

setup -> items -> parent items

check Keep Position and/or Keep Alignment

hope that’s what you’re looking for?

#16

yep thats the stuff. for some reason you must use those buttons in messiah, otherwise if you drag and drop it wont parent in place. just a quirk of messiah that i hope is addressed in the future.

#17

Thanks Jipe… however… I think I’m missing the block for the Parent Item:

Weird… maybe I should re-install. :curious:

#18

Hmmm wouldn’t this only work if i had the seperate parts of the mech as different onjects? cause as it is it imports as one big object…as far as messiah seems to be concerned its leg is the same mesh as its head etc etc
unless i’m missing something here.

i thought about re exporting it in chuncks, but i got into this battle with the effectors and wanted to not give in lol :wink:

which one is that? the “rigging 2” one…with the dog and tate? i have that one, but i’ve only done tates body, notb his head yet…i need to do that i know lol, its just so hard not to just jump into it straight away.

anyway thanks for all the support guys :beer:

and shadowfork, its odd that you seem to be missing the block, i’ll check in a bit if i have it too.

#19

But isn’t this better in the long run? I mean, setting this up will be quicker than modifying each part with a metaeffector.

In theory (if i only got that parent block working)…
you would just have to :

  1. parent each object to the bones
  2. Bam! All set to be animated.

Against Metaeffecting (6 steps):

  1. Add an effector
  2. Add mesh to weightlist
  3. Add metaeffector tool
  4. Grab the metaeffector tool and parent it to the bone
  5. Set the area of influence of the effector
  6. Assight the Metaeffector tool on the bone block (weight)

But then again, if ‘metaeffecting’ is faster for you, and you can make it work, then I would definitely like to see your workflow.

:applause:

#20

yeah you have to make separate objects. but honestly thats far far far less work then what you are doing. and really, i admire your will to solve it, but it shouldnt be your method of choice, why make it harder on yourself?