Matte practice - London Street

#21

The main issue is thatthe whole left row seems to be leaning towards right. The other is that the new building is not accurately in perspective, which adds to the effect.

I am improving it, and also have added a third building to the row, which helps seeing the whole row’s problems better.

Expect to have an update a bit later. With the whole row in place this time.

And yes, the second building needs to get closer to the overall tonal structure of the image.

This is going to be one long mutha of a street.

#22

well i can tell you for sure that they are leaning :slight_smile: it seems that because of the nature of terrain everlite missed the horizon by a few degrees :slight_smile: try leaning the buildings to the left and than redo the perspective?

just my two dime of thoughts :slight_smile:

cheers
Milos

#23

It is just me with the perspective. All the houses are so stretched in various dimensions already, that it’s no wonder they lean to wherever.

I’m fixing it.

#24

Update: Fixing the second house, tried to straighten the house on the foreground.

Are the houses better now?

#25

Revelation when reading MileDream’s thread: All the stretching has lost the vertical proportions and that is (I think) one major factor in making this feel “wrong”.

I tried stretching the whole image vertically. Is it better like this, or is it just me?

#26

no, it looks stretched :slight_smile: no short cuts im afraid.

Not sure about the redbrick buildings. I wonder how it would look if you replaced that section with a park, have trees lining down the rest of the street, then maybe some distant cross road with the city beyond that. It might also be worth investigating a few intersections to break it up a little. When transforming whole sections like the right side, break it down into sections and transform them individually, at the moment you have a jelly house :slight_smile: that seems to be leaning to the right near camera and falling over in the distance.

The right is very stretched, hmmm, though i understand why. Consider replacing the right side with some of the other plates.

Take time, and dont be afraid to start again if it all goes pear shaped, though not suggesting you should :slight_smile:

Dave.

#27

This quickie undoubtably looks stretched. =)

But if you compare this to the original plates, proportions of the buildings are a lot closer in this.

I also think the intersecting roads and foliage (as in park) would give this the right kind of atmosphere. These foreground buildings don’t actually look like buildings that face each other on the opposite sides of a narrow street. Actually, when I look at each one of them, I can picture a beach boulevard and an ocean.

About the rubber houses… I think they are better than ever, but there’s still a minor distortion, mainly very close to the edges. They will be fixed.

I try the park approach next, and think about changing the right side house. I like the left side one more, and it also has more room to build the extension of the street behind it.

If I try to put a park on the right side, a house behind that, a crossing street with intersection behind the first house on the left and see where that takes me?

#28

I am happy that you are also participating this challenge, competition is healthy :slight_smile:

Like everlite said before, the most important thing is to nail down the composition and mood first. Don’t be afraid to lose the details u are tempted to keep, because you can always bring it back later. The best approach I think is to walk away from the painting and sit down in front of a blank piece of paper and sketch out a few thumbnails. That way you can think outside the box, and won’t let the photo manipulate you.

Because at the moment, I think its just 2 rows of buildings uniformly stretching down into the distance. try break up buildings block or give them different height or different silouhette against the sky, i think all of them can give visual interest.

#29

I think the less wide the better. maybe try to keep in the same dimensions of the original photo. though to my eye the angle still looks distorted. it could be more of an issue of the position of the camera when taking the initial photos. the lens distortion can make an image look wonky when compositing it differently to how it was taken.

I think what makes the whole perspective thing kinda offish to me is that the left side is further away but appears to be more higher and dominating than the right side which allthough is the closest side, seems to be lower and pulling back. The right side should be the dominating side because its closer to the point of view. if you draw a horizontal line from the left building balcony to the right building balcony you’ll see what I mean by this. hope that makes sense.

#30

oh, btw. if you really have problem with setting up a correct perspective, use a 3d program to do a mock up with cubes and plane. I just uploaded one of mine in my thread

#31

yeah thats a good way to go about it. maybe camera map the source photos on basic geometry to get a more accurate perspective as well lens distortion and camera positioning.

#32

I wrote an essay about this challenge and the crossroads I feel like I’m standing right now to MileDream’s thread. Please read it as it answers to all the 3d - stuff discussed in two previous posts.

#33

Back again, with bag of new tricks and a whole new start.

This is the concept(that got out of hand, since I found it really enjoyable to draw after a week of stretching images trying to get the perspective right):

There is obviously a lot to think further before it actually takes shape. But the basic idea is here already. This should combine a London street scene with almost aerial image of London. For that there needs to be downhill. I plan on making it really obvious by lining it with a row of houses that clearly is built on the hillside.

This is a concept of a night matte, but there is supposed to be day & winter & christmas & fog & rainversions too. The aim is still photorealism.

The elements on top of the hill will all be 3d - based. Modeled after real life references. The plan is to use just the geometry and AO pass to get the basic shapes into photoshop.

The next thing will be to concept and sketch & model the houses and start thinking about the London backdrop.

All pointers will be appreciated!

#34

nice concept.

just a thought, if u still planning to do a matte painting with a day and night version. Is better to do the day time one first, and take it to a night scene. It will be harder to do it the other way around.

#35

looking really nice, like the mood. though it’s difficult determining which time period you’re conveying. some of the buildings look fairly modern and the lighting in the windows looks like electricity, whilst the street lamps are suggesting this could be london 100 years ago.

Also I think the the long road to nowhere / hill effect kinda seems unrealistic to me. when I cover this up it appears much more believable. I’d imagine maybe more buildings facing us at the end.

If your going for old london, maybe make the sky a bit more greyer due to all the pollution and and a bit of fog. classic :wink:

#36

The “modern looking building” at the right is actually a 3d box which marks the spot of the house to be. =) I textured it just for the hell of it. This was originally just a test to check the comp.

I noticed that when there’s light coming from a group of windows next to each other, it makes the impression of electric lights. Also, the light from the streetlights needs to be more yellow and the lighted spot at the bottom of each light is generally all wrong. There would need to be a shadow, then the ring of lighted area. The bases of the lamps would cast a shadow.

Ohyeah, the street decline is unrealistic to me too. I need to check some references on how it would go in the real world.

As I get the composition right, I start building the daytime scene with as neutral lighting as possible. And derive the different variations from that after its done.

#37

Hi I have been reading this thread with interest. It is a difficult one, I have noticed where you may be going wrong. The original plate needs tidying up, you have some camera lens distortion. look up Barrelling and Pincushion on Google. The verticals on the plate need tidying up, the perspective to vanishing point was pretty good.

I have noticed that you were interested in doing a long street, this is fine but having worked in London the streets are actually small little blocks of architecture. There are examples of georgian architecture using long streets but not in London.

You need to incorporate some architectural rythmn. This would be having breaks between the houses to incorporate side streets. Dave mentioned a park, this would introduce a area of green. Why is a area of green important?

London pre 1666 was built up so closely that the city could not breathe, there was pollution and a excess of buildings. After the great fire Sir Christopher Wren was charged with rebuilding the city. He designed the buildings to be built of a light colour to introduce light, he also gave the city park areas where residents could escape the miasma. Also as a fire measure there were fire breaks which is why the streets are wide.

If you put in city blocks into the perspective line it would give the matte a sense of rythmn, the human eye likes this, greenery in a picture actually relaxes the eye, this would also break up the harsh lines.

The key to doing this successfully is to keep it simple, look at the matte work on league of extraordinary gentleman.

Keep the height of the buildings in as the buildings were built tall.

Keep away from the night matte concept, every matte painter reaches a plateau where they run out of steam and then they suddenly do a night matte. Night mattes are too easy to fall into.

In summary,

Rythmn
colour - green
spacing
sort out the original plate
keep it simple

I would also suggest no projection on this matte till it is finished.

You have some good ideas and I am eagerly looking forward to more,

Regards and respect

Rich

#38

I have noticed that you were interested in doing a long street, this is fine but having worked in London the streets are actually small little blocks of architecture. There are examples of georgian architecture using long streets but not in London.

Hmm, not quite true :slight_smile: having spent the last 6 months in london i spent quite a number of weekends photography long streets with rows of georgian houses.

Dave mentioned a park, this would introduce a area of green. Why is a area of green important?

Experimentation, to explore alternative ideas and derive the best solution. Why not?

Keep away from the night matte concept, every matte painter reaches a plateau where they run out of steam and then they suddenly do a night matte.

No, again, thats not quite true. Night paintings require a greater level of skill and demostrate a better understanding of matte painting in general. In fact they’re some of the toughest shots a matte painter can be given.

Night mattes are too easy to fall into.

?

I would also suggest no projection on this matte till it is finished.

? from experience right?

Dave.

#39

Hi Dave,

I beg to differ,

for long streets of same architecture, please read as detatched houses, St James Park, Regents Street, Princes Street, Birdcage walk,

the long streets are mainly round Bath, Bristol, Oxford,

Oxford Street, Shaftesbury Avenue, are long streets but are broken up with diffrerent architectural styles.

As for night mattes looking through Digital Artiste Matte Painting, the night matte example is basically a bunch of layer mattes. Some lighting has to be done I agree, and texture also. A day matte is a lot harder as there is a lot more to go wrong.

The matte the OP has posted just leads the eye straightout of the picture, I was trying to get the point across as having rythmn in the painting by using negative space. If the linear perspective was leading straight out, something in place would pull it back. Look at the examples in Sweeney Todd, My fair lady, mary Poppins. Some people would naturally think of Bath as an example (Used in Oliver) which is wrong. All the squares and circuses of the period face onto a park or meeting area (Covent Garden). If you are in London go to Regents park and have a look around you will notice a pattern of housing facing into a area. It is subtle but it is there to see.

Tons of respect mate,

Rich

PS whats a yorkshireman doing in London?

#40

Hi Dave,

I beg to differ,

for long streets of same architecture, please read as detatched houses, St James Park, Regents Street, Princes Street, Birdcage walk,

the long streets are mainly round Bath, Bristol, Oxford,

Oxford Street, Shaftesbury Avenue, are long streets but are broken up with diffrerent architectural styles.

As for night mattes looking through Digital Artiste Matte Painting, the night matte example is basically a bunch of layer mattes. Some lighting has to be done I agree, and texture also. A day matte is a lot harder as there is a lot more to go wrong.

The matte the OP has posted just leads the eye straightout of the picture, I was trying to get the point across as having rythmn in the painting by using negative space. If the linear perspective was leading straight out, something in place would pull it back. Look at the examples in Sweeney Todd, My fair lady, mary Poppins. Some people would naturally think of Bath as an example (Used in Oliver) which is wrong. All the squares and circuses of the period face onto a park or meeting area (Covent Garden). If you are in London go to Regents park and have a look around you will notice a pattern of housing facing into a area. It is subtle but it is there to see.

Tons of respect mate,

Rich

PS whats a yorkshireman doing in London?

Ok, you win. lol :slight_smile:

Joat:

you aint given up already have you?? come on, i just know you’re bevering away with ideas :slight_smile:

Dave.