LETS TALK (Disintegration Mini challenge)

#1

[color=white]First I wanted to thank all who have participated in past FXWARS mini challenges.

I am posting this thread, because I want to keep the number of entries high for the present and future challenges…[/color]

[color=white]So far we have no teams up yet for the disintegration mini challenge, but then again I still have not posted the plug.[/color]

[color=white]So let’s talk about the current mini challenge: [/color]

[color=white]CgTalk:FXWars! Challenge#14 DISINTEGRATION[/color][color=white] (link)

I want to know: [/color]
[ul]
[li][color=white]Are the rules clear enough?[/color][/li][li][color=white]Are the examples I posted useful?[/color][/li][li][color=white]What could be done to attract more members to the challenge?[/color][/li][li][color=white]What would you change?[/li](For example one idea I want to push is to start a point system, for those who participate, and for those who win the mini challenges.)[/color]
[li][color=white]What can I do I do (within my powers) to foment more of a community environment? [/color][/li][/ul][color=white]Hopefully I can implement your suggestions and ideas before the plug goes live.

Looking forward to your comments. [/color]

[color=white]-R[/color]

#2

[color=white]Are the rules clear enough?[/color]

I think the rules are very clear, but the rules seem to be getting longer with each challenge. Maybe you could reduce them to more basic description. For example; You don’t really have to tell people that porn isn’t allowed.
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Are the examples I posted useful?

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I’ve hardly ever looked at the examples. I usually get a first impression of an idea for the FXWars, and then go with it. But, that’s just me.[color=white]
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What could be done to attract more members to the challenge?
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[color=white]I think some of the past couple of challenges were as fun as others. I noticed that the FXWars that included crashes, explosions, and other traditional effects were more popular.
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What would you change? [color=white](For example one idea I want to push is to start a point system, for those who participate, and for those who win the mini challenges.)[/color][color=white]
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I’d totally switch that around. Let’s give points to people who post comments in people’s WIP threads. Without other people showing interest in your entry it’s just no fun.

I’ve noticed that it’s mostly people who are also doing entry that post comments in other people’s WIP threads. If we could attract more of the general population from CGTalk, then things would be better.

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What can I do I do (within my powers) to foment more of a community environment?

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BRING BACK the past FXWars winner entries. Everytime you have an FXWars challenge, and someone wins (or places in the top 3). There should be a “sticky” thread for that challenge. That never goes away. So that people who come by can browse each sticky thread. Download the past videos, watch them, and then decide if they want to join.

The reason I joined last time was because I really liked the car crash FXWars entries. Now, if you go to the FXWars forum. All those past challenges are gone and you can’t download them anymore. :frowning:

#3

Man you have posted some incredibly good ideas. Ill reply to them in detail when I get home tonight.

Ok lets keep the lines open guys.

-R

#4

Keeping an archive of the past winning entries handy is a great idea. It would be a motivator to see how awesome the results can be, and to know that your entry won’t just fade off into the abyss after the competition is over. What about getting the winners to put their entries on YouTube? That would save them using their own bandwidth. You could start an FXWars channel/group/whatever it is?

Another factor (which may be my total nonsense, hehe) is the position of the FXWARS forum in the long list of forums here on CGTalk. Literally every time I go to come here, I open that drop down menu and it takes me quite a few seconds to find where in the list it is. It’s not up the top with CGNews and General Discussion, and it’s not down the bottom where the Maya/Max forums are. It’s lost in the middle under 500 ‘archive/older challenge’ forums (why do they need to be in a quick access menu like that?) Sorry I guess that’s not something you personally can fix but it may contribute to the lack of non-participant-commenters?

After the challenge has started and been plugged, it takes a while for the teams to get organised and started, so visitors may think “oh, there’s nothing there yet” and then it’s not a very prominent area to just stumble upon, so they never visit again (until the winners are plugged).

This disintegration challenge may take off a bit slower in particular because you have to recreate something similar to a scene from a movie rather than just come up with your own random idea. People may have to go out and hire the movies to help them choose a theme/scene and then keep it for reference.

Once people actually get into and read these threads here, I think you’ve done a really great job Robert on providing the examples with links etc! I hope this does take off!

:thumbsup:

EDIT: Just thinking a little more about my second paragraph, what if somewhere at the top of the main CGTalk ‘interface’ there was a little bar of link/icons for all the different challenge sections (FXWars/Speed Modelling etc) and the currently active challenges are highlighted while the inactive ones are dulled out. Then you could visually be reminded “oh that’s right, I should check out the FXWars again” and click on that little icon.

#5

More so I think the disintegration challenge will take a while to get going purely because it’s January. People are really only starting up their brains by February, due to work readjustments, holidays, project downtime etc.

Myself case in point, i’ve got a bit of hardware and software to upgrade for the new year before I can start. :smiley:

[color=white]Are the rules clear enough?[/color]

Quite, although “no stunt work” is a little vague. I know cgtalk has to cover it’s butt for legal reasons, but what the film industry defines as a stunt can be pretty medicore stuff.
For example, if I need to film a shot of a guy jumping off the bonnet of a car so I can disintegrate him as he falls, is it classified as a stunt, since he’s only dropping 1 metre onto his feet?

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Are the examples I posted useful?

More than ample. I’m in the process of writing up a Harry Potter disintegration discussion.

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[color=white]What could be done to attract more members to the challenge?[/color]

I’d like to see if we can pull a couple of studio-heads into the discussion to talk about how THEY did shots for this genre of effects. Borislav Petrov (Bobo) and Allan Mckay (amckay) have had extensive experience in particle destruction and disintegration for example.

[color=white]What would you change?[/color]

I would like to see winning challenge entrants do a tutorial on how they did the effect.

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[color=white]What can I do I do (within my powers) to foment more of a community environment? [/color]

Encourage interaction and demonstration definately. It may be a challenge with a goal of winning, but it’s more about helping people to grow their brainmeats in the area of effects. What one person does to acheive a result may be entirely different to another.
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#6

* Are the rules clear enough?
Yes.

* Are the examples I posted useful?
Yes, though some examples I don’t remember since it’s a while since I watched the films.

* What could be done to attract more members to the challenge?
To let the general cgtalk members know that fx is not just fx work, other roles such as animators and modellers should join in.

* What would you change?

Allow two types of entries, one that replicates the effects in the films set forth, and another type of non restricted entry, based simply on the idea of Disintegration.

[B]

  • What can I do I do (within my powers) to foment more of a community environment? [/B]

Get cgcast.com to do interviews with some of the entrants :slight_smile:

Alvin

#7

Wow Keep em coming…

-R

#8

Hey Roberto.

First off:
I definately think we need sub forums to archive each of the past FXWars threads.
That way anyone can easily look back at what was done and past and current participants will continue to get exposure after the challenge is long gone.

Second:
I think there are too many stickies during each challenge, there should be more consolidation and more info in a central easy to ready thread. Maybe 3 stickies max is what I’d reccomend.

Those are just a few ideas to tidy up the forum.

Third, and most importantly:
I think the challenges are getting too complex and restrictive, which is in turn pushing people away from entering and getting involved. Take the current challenge as an example - the rules state that it has to be a disintegration that mimics something already done in a previous film.
Now, its definately a cool idea - but when you think about it, you’re challenging people to match what professional VFX companies worked on. Its highly restrictive for people like me that work full time and have very little spare time to give to these types of challenges.

I would love to submit a cool desintegration effect that I could bang out in a weekend in my 3D program and have that as my entry - just for fun, nothing too serious. But the current rules dont really allow for something like this.

I think if you were to open up the FXWars to more people by having much looser rules and guidelines, you’ll get a lot better turnout - from both amatures that can dedicate a lot of time to their project, AND vfx professionals that just work on it for a weekend.

It would kind of go back to how the FX wars were back when they started. Just give us a topic like a the single word: “Disintegration” but have it totally open ended and leave it up to us to enterpret what we want to do with it.

#9

[color=white]Are the rules clear enough?[/color]
Yes, but as a newbie, I have been thrown off a bit between the difference of the “mini-challenge” and the (I guess) “main” challenge. I did not know there were two seperate entries, I am trying to catch myself up on how things work here in this thread.

[color=white]Are the examples I posted useful?[/color]
Very, you spent a significant time on preperation and info, and it shows.

[color=white]What could be done to attract more members to the challenge?[/color]
Once again as a newbie, this is quite a technical challenge (nothing wrong with that, and should be up to me, as a user, to keep up). It seems a bit imposing for a beginner, maybe a lot of people have the same feeling and are a bit leery about giving it a shot.

[color=white]What would you change?[/color]
[color=white]Maybe leave more room or space based on skill, but then the guidleines have to start somewhere and you have drawn a very clear line. Photo-realistic is IMO a difficult start, and clearly not for beginners wanting to give it a try.

(For example one idea I want to push is to start a point system, for those who participate, and for those who win the mini challenges.)
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[color=white]What can I do I do (within my powers) to foment more of a community environment?[/color]
I think you have a excellent start, as in you have several “Topic based” threads for people to share tips, show their work, and ask questions - I feel that a community would build itself given time and the right amount of frequent/return visits.

D,

#10

I would love to submit a cool desintegration effect that I could bang out in a weekend in my 3D program and have that as my entry - just for fun, nothing too serious. But the current rules dont really allow for something like this.

@DivideByZero - I totally agree. When the rules state that you have “2 months” to complete. It feels like the rules are saying “your entry must reflect 2 months of work”.

Instead of having all these different categories for voting on entries. Can’t we have different effort levels. We still have 2 months, but you can submit your work for the “1 week” category. Then I can spread my 5 days over the 2 months.

I think people understand that you don’t have to spend every day working on it, but when the winner gets first place because he has no personal life, drinks lots of caffeine enriched soda, and access to a render farm. Well, you get my point :slight_smile:

Once again as a newbie, this is quite a technical challenge (nothing wrong with that, and should be up to me, as a user, to keep up). It seems a bit imposing for a beginner, maybe a lot of people have the same feeling and are a bit leery about giving it a shot.

@Diabolos - I totally agree. I just finished a television spot that required fluid being pored into a glass. I’ve never used RealFlow before, and I had to follow a tutorial to get the spot finished. But, here the rules state that you can’t copy a tutorial. I disgree with that rule. If your a beginner, and watch to use a tutorial, then that it fine as long as your reference the tutorial in your WIP.

Which brings me to the next point.

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Are the examples I posted useful?

Wouldn’t it be better to provide a list of tutorial references. Things like links to PFlow, etc. etc. I know it’s a pain to create such a list, but would help people get past the technical problems of each contest.

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I’d like to see if we can pull a couple of studio-heads into the discussion to talk about how THEY did shots for this genre of effects. Borislav Petrov (Bobo) and Allan Mckay (amckay) have had extensive experience in particle destruction and disintegration for example.

@erilaz - that would be very cool.

#11

Clear consolidated rules in a single locked sticky with a separate thread for questions.

Plugs that clearly advertise the need for team members of all skills, and points them to the above sticky.

#12

Wow, this has turned out to be a treasure trove of ideas.
So much so, that I will reconfigure the challenge based on your ideas.
Thanks and please do keep em coming.

-R

#13

FXWARS: CHALLENGE WINNER GALLERY

Ok I have posted the gallery:

Sticky: FXWARS: CHALLENGE WINNER GALLERY

I will be posting the images and animations during the week (I do need to sleep)
And thanks to Akin (DivideByZero ) I will be hosting the winning animations from now on.

Also if you have done a PAST winning entry, send me a PM, so I can host the animation.

OK now to SIMPLIFY the challenge.

I will now start reconfiguring the challenge based on your ideas.

(And please, keep em coming)

-R

#14

Ok I did my first draft of the revision of the rules…

check them out:

CgTalk:FXWars! Challenge#14 DISINTEGRATION

-R

#15

Ok we will do also doing some negotiations to host all entries.
And The voting program might do a comeback (but I have to code it).

More on that soon.

Also I was thinking of creating a cathegory called:
[ul]
[li]Best Casual Entry[/li][li]Best Team Entry [/li][/ul]Keep em coming guys.

-R

#16

Roberto,
I just went throught the new challenge page, I like the new rules :thumbsup: Evil ideas start tomorrow :slight_smile:

#17

Great work Roberto the new rules are looking really good!

:thumbsup:

#18

Akin (DivideByZero vbmenu_register(“postmenu_4155426”, true); ) has been kind enought to provide some server space
where we will be hosting final animations.
Click the image for an Uploaded sample.
(From a the VOLCANO Fxwars)


(click inmage for animation)

#19

And I just simplified the voting categories.

They now are:

BEST COMPOSITE WORK (For NON Fully CG shots)
BEST TRIBUTE (Only for films in the selected list)
BEST TEAM ENTRY
BEST INDIE ENTRY
BEST OVERALL ENTRY

-R

#20

Yep, as Roberto mentioned - I’m in the process of putting together a file uploader that will provide simple, fast, direct file hosting for everyone final FXWars submissions.

I’m working out the last remaining bugs now, but I’ll probably open it up for beta later tonight.