Learn Cinema 4D after blender?

#24

I know what you mean, but that was not what i was pointing at. It was about that somebody said literally nobody uses C4D for game assets. Wich is not true. C4D is used for game assets as a fact. And not just here and there. I have seen it.

If it makes sense and in what scope, if there are better solutions around, and if just as a one trick tool in the pipeline or as the all in one solution is a completely different chapter then. And that’s a discussion that i will surely not want to lead here. It doesn’t lead to anywhere anyways.

Maybe one thing. AAA is just a super tiny fraction of game development. Even single A is. I would say 90 % games is nowadays low quality casual content in the scope where you don’t even need a normalmap. The market is very wide, with lots of target platforms and game ideas. From Pong to MMO. There are games that uses low poly flat shading as a style. And the hyperrealistic content is nowadays Megascans libraries.

#25

Yes, but we use standards to measure. I can say people use Microsoft Paint for games and while maybe its true, and im pretty sure some game was made using only MS Paint -because MS Paint artists do exist, thats nowhere near the reality we face, neither should be the standard we use to measure either quality or ease of use of a software for a given job.

If that were the case, then we should compare what every average joe with a smartphone can do on TikTok instead of what profesionals film makers in Hollywood can.

edit… anyway… Icecaveman -someone who I not always agree with- said serious game companies, I asumed he was talking about AAA, not one man bands like the impresive guy who made Minecraft.

#26

Again, your feelings, your own standards and what you think is better is not the point. I know for a fact that Cine is used for game assets since I had contact with those people. I have developed games for 15 years. And i honestly don’t understand what your problem is with that.

As told, i don’t really want to discuss the rest. But I think you have still the wrong picture of the games industry. The variety of games and companies who produces such games is enourmous. You should definitely rethink your definition of a serious game company. AAA titles for the PC are produced by a handful companies. The very most companies produces low quality casual games for pc, console, hand helds, mobile phone, etc. . Ten in a row, nine failing, one making the money for the next ten games. That’s the usual game business. Not the AAA titles. And titles like Minecraft or Angry Bird is the jackpot, one of a million.

For this casual games sometimes the job of a game artist is to texture a simple cube. The almighty box. Or to create a coin for a bejeweld clone. You could do most of the tasks with Milkshape already.

But here we enter again the “what is better” area. Which i don’t want to discuss. Which car is better? Porsche or VW? Who made better art? Keith Haring or Da Vinci?

Use whatever fits your needs best. But please not based on alternative facts. That’s why i made my statement.

#27

Didn’t say that. I said, “Virtually nobody” which is the same as saying “Almost nobody.” And the context of the statement was in relationship to hiring. Can someone use c4d to create a game? Absolutely! Are there a handful that do? Sure. But beyond a very small indy studio here or there…please name a single notable game studio in the entire world that is hiring c4d artists. You’ll be hard pressed to find one.

Companies focused on gaming use Maya, Max or Blender. Then in these studios you’ll discover a few Houdini specialists creating sims as well as Zbrush artists building characters. C4d? Overwhelmingly…No.

#28

Just curious, have you ever made a game in your life? Have you ever participated in a game dev community? I already pointed at Unity. C4D was and is commonly used there. I also told you that i know enough Cine users that develops games with it. This is first hand experience. Folks, this is real. No hoax. It is not “literally nobody” and not “overwhelmingly no”. That’s wishful thinking.

And you imho still have a completely wrong picture of game development, assets and pipelines. It is not all MMO and shooters. You talk to a game developer here. And i know when somebody talks bollocks since i was part of the show. That’s the difference between guessing and knowing. But okay. When reality does not play a role here then i guess we have reached the end of discussion.

#29

This is a sore spot for me.

Cinema4D users who use the software to create game related assets do exist. But let’s face it; almost no one buys Cinema4D specifically for game development. The vast majority of people, prior to entering the game development field, were Mac users who were already using Cinema4D for other purposes; namely motion graphics and broadcast titling in tandem with AE. Given Maya’s buggy state, C4D was the only stable mainstream 3D program for MacOS at the time. The tremendous success of the iOS eco-system and the potential for lucrative payouts enticed many C4D users to try their hand at mobile game development for the first time. Due to the fact that they already had a Mac to publish iOS apps, which was necessary, and already knew C4D, that’s what they used to generate assets. This is the primary base of C4D game developers today.

When contrasted with other 3D animation software used by studios and independent developers, Cinema4D is at the very bottom of the pile. As a Cinema4D user, it is frustrating to see the blistering pace of other 3D applications for game development like Blender and Houdini to include features such as real time viewports, seamless export to other engines and a multitude of amazing plugins to enhance game-centric workflows on a weekly basis. Official support and endorsements from large studios as well as game engines companies further reinforces their legitimacy as proper game dev tools.

Meanwhile, in C4D land, we have been begging Maxon for a fraction of the above for a long time. Rudimentary features that other software developers take for granted such as proper export to Unreal and Unity were slow to be realized; never mind export functionality that is kept up to date. We just recently had an updated UV toolset that while being welcomed several years after the fact, is still subpar. Maxon had a number of opportunities to make Cinema4D a very game development friendly platform but instead did everything they possibly could to avoid accommodating game developers – only getting away with the absolute bare minimum. It is as if is Maxon tosses a rare bone to us in a begrudging acknowledgement that we exist.

I would like to think that Maxon will turn a new leaf and take game development seriously but given the history of lost opportunities, I’m skeptical. Among them was the early lead Maxon had with Bodypaint 3D. It could be best described as a precursor to Allegorithmic’s Substance painter. It took years for the competition from The Foundry and Allegorithmic to finally emerge and take the real time projection painting crown from Maxon; time that could have been used to really bolster the capabilities of Bodypaint.

Why does Maxon neglect game development to this extent? Perhaps it’s cultural. German thinking among businesses circles is traditionally conservative. The management at Maxon may see video games as low brow activity. They want to showcase architects, commercial/feature film VFX artists but treat game developers like Kryptonite. It would be ironic if true given some of the amazing game engine technology that has come out of Germany.

Maxon’s focus has been on AE and motion graphic industries. Not an unwise move at the time but over reliance on this is starting to cost them. Other packages are catching up to include mograph feature sets and software like Houdini has surpassed the hard technical ceiling which limited C4D. Pricing is also an issue; there is still no indie level fee structure that other competitors have embraced that bring indie developers to their side.

Perhaps most worrying at all for Maxon is the aggressive inroads that Adobe is making towards making 3D more accessible in its own software. I am specifically referring to Adobe Dimension which is being worked on by the former Mixamo team and Allegorithmic. Adobe is famous for squeezing out middlemen to limit their reliance on third parties; the 3D -> AE bridge could well be their next focus for full independence. I suspect that before long, we’ll see full integration between Dimension and After Effects. This would leave Maxon in a precarious position. I suspect that’s why Maxon is now pivoting to other areas and may explain their acquisition of Red Giant both as a means to branch out while signaling to Adobe that if Cineware is compromised, so too will Red Giant support for AE.

At the moment, I’m in doubt as to Maxon’s ability to expand its base beyond the loyal customers that it already has. Even if they were to start focusing on game developers today, it may already be too late. The momentum has shifted in favor of Blender for general purpose use and that entrenchment is only strengthening. 10 years from now, we may all be asking, “Remember the days when we had to pay for 3D animation software with standard features? Now we get it for free and buy just plugins.”