I want to go back to the industry but I made a mistake, should I return to school?

#1

Hi guys

I know there is already a lot of threads about 3D schools but I think I really need some help here.
I live in France,I’m 24 years old and I already have a bachelor degree in 3D animation, during which I really concentrate on getting better and I really didn’t take care of myself at all, and then,right after I miss my chance. Let me explain: I was an intern at a 3D studio at the end of my studies and they offer me a job at the end of the four month internship. I refused. I know this is not great at all and I have no excuse but at the time I was literraly the type of girl who do nothing but 3d and I made a burnout I think( I was also immature). I try to do some music pro stuff after that,but I couldn’t erase from my heart the love I feel for creating characters and stories. I’ve rejected my inner passion thinking it’s not for someone like me,“I’m not into it anymore”. The thing is,it’s almost 3 years now,and since I was a child I drew a lot and really love creating stuff (I know it’s cliché) I’m constantly thinking now about the fact that I would really loved to do 3D for a living so I tried to make a demo and send it to some studios but really I lack of self confidence and I think my demo isn’t good enough so I got no answers at all.
Since february 2018 I follow some masterclasses,take youtube tutorial to try to push my modeling and texturing to the next level and I think about going to school again but as I already have knowledge I’m a little lost. I was thinking about getting animation courses but I don’t really love animation in the way I love modeling, and I don’t want to do a 3 years degree again because I know there is already so much to learn on the internet and I know as a matter of fact that 3D schools cost a lot… I know some artist are self thaugh but I don’t have a lot of contacts and I don’t know if I will find a job without internship. I also though about getting a mentorship program but it has a price and I really need some help.
I would like to add that I’m not a teenage girl anymore,I know what I want to do and I know I made a big mistake,but I really want to go in this industry because it’s on my mind since way to long ,I know what it’s like to have a shitty job just to pay the bill and to work on 3D projects as soon as you are back home. I just want some help that could get me thinking about what’s right for me.

Thank you for reading me! :slight_smile:
(and I’m sorry if there is some english grammar mistakes)

#2

From your title, I thought you’d broken an NDA or punched your supervisor or something like that that would get you blacklisted. You just turned down a job offer? Polish up your portfolio and start applying for things. I really don’t see what’s complicated here; it sounds like you’re doing everything right.

#3

If you’re demo reel isn’t good enough then get some feedback and make a better one. Just don’t think that, because your reel is finished, you’re done. You’ll naturally improve with each new piece. Reevaluate and rework the reel as needed and to reflect your growth. No sense keeping 3 year old work that’s terrible if it’s just going to drag you down. Your reel is your handshake and the first impression you make on an employer. Maintain an updated reel and only include your best work.

Schools can be good, especially if you need the discipline and structure. However, the technology moves so fast that you can sometimes do better on your own if you’re a self-starter. I know that you’re afraid that you won’t get a job, but not trying is worse than not getting hired. Just keep at it. It’s a competitive market and perseverance is essential. It only takes one “yes” to get you started.

As a lot of people here can confirm, having no job experience can actually keep you from getting that first job. I know. It’s weird and it sucks. Coming from a school environment, you have that “in” and can get the internship. You’re right. However, there are other ways to get your foot in the door too. For example, take on some freelance. It adds to your reel and proves that you can deliver to clients. Additionally, you could try group projects. These are, admittedly, small steps, but they can be used as stepping stones. The alternatives are a blank CV and gap in your work history.

You’re 24. There are artists here nearly twice your age who’ve changed career paths late in life. You’re hardly an old timer and certainly not too old to enter the field.

What you need to do is turn that hiatus into an advantage. Make lemonade out of lemons, as they say. Every experience, even a bad one, can become a teachable moment. If, in that break, you focused on music, try and do something that visually draws from that period. Iron Man models are a dime a dozen and say nothing about you. A piece that’s personal and personalized can help you stand out. Stuff like that adds character and heart, especially if you’ve got the technical skills to back you up.

How about this? Post a link to your reel. Let people here evaluate it, tear it to shreds (if need be), and point you in the right direction. It’s hard to see the forest for the trees sometimes. You can be so close to a project that, after a while, you no longer see the flaws that might otherwise be obvious. If you feel that, perhaps, quality is what has kept you from getting replies, we can help you get better. That’s one of the reasons why this community exists.

Two last parting pieces of advice:

  1. Stay plugged in. Being good is important, but so is being connected. It’s a digital age and social media is important. Maintain that presence, make those contacts, behave in a mature, professional manner, and always aim to impress. Keeping your name out there and on peoples’ minds can take you very far. Nowadays, part of the game is marketing yourself. Again, a solid reel is super important, but it’s worthless if you can’t get anybody to see it. ArtStation. Twitter. Facebook. Whatever will get you seen and remembered. A modern CG artist has to be one part da Vinci and one part Kim Kardashian. Your best advocate is always you.

  2. If you don’t hear from an employer immediately, try not to lose faith. Nothing happens overnight. Employers sometimes have a bad habit of sitting on these reels and CVs, collecting them like a squirrel does nuts for the winter. You might send out a CV today, forget about it, and suddenly hear back months later. That’s doubly true if the employer is in mid-project and can’t/won’t hire until the next one is close to ramping up. Employers work at their pace, not yours. Waiting is part of the game. So, with that in mind, keep cranking out some badass art and taking on those stray projects or jobs as they come along. Come interview time, it’ll answer the question, “So, what have you been up to lately?”

#4

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again - I can’t see why she can’t “get together with friends and do something cool”? Like, a story writer, a director and so forth…? I may not be the best person to give advice, but…a JOB is…not the thing that an artist usually desires, right? If you’re having FUN together with like minded, creative people [OP], then… won’t that lead to better work? :slight_smile:

#5

Ideally, you’re correct. It’s a domino effect. Provided that you can still earn a living at the same time, there’s no reason not to take on a side project in the interim. If the bank account is running dry, well, that’s something else.

That said, there’s nothing wrong with wanting to be a working artist and for that to be your end goal. I’ve never subscribed to the notion that an artist has to also be starving to be happy. It’s a bit of an outdated idea. Yeah. You may have to work at Walmart until you get your break, but where’s the shame in that?

Also, everybody defines success differently. Being a working artist today isn’t quite the same as the old days of trying to find a patron and that being your only option… There are a lot more ways to find financial and critical success as an artist in this day and age.

Patience. Hard work. Balance.

We’re really both right here. The dream is to do what you love and get paid for doing it. If it takes time for those two things to align then so be it. Be the actor who waits tables until they “get discovered.” Be the artist who suffers a crappy job by day while they make art with friends by night. Eventually, hopefully, things will pay off.

#6

The first thing you have to do is Polish up your portfolio as Meloncov writes and start applying it will give experience.

#7

No need to go back to school, like the others said you just need to brush up and update your portfolio. Even if you’re good enough, studios might not be hiring for your position at the moment. Knowing the right people is also key to getting in this industry, besides having a good portfolio.

First of all what part of animation are you trying to get into? Games, VFX, TV animation? Secondly, Do you want to be a modeler, rigger, animator, etc.? Find out what software your ideal industry is using and what your ideal department is looking for in a demo reel. I’m sure whatever they were using 3 years ago is different from how it is now, times are always changing.

Also, post your work online and look for feedback. I went on your profile and noticed you have nothing listed, so to start off you could link your portfolio on here and add a contact email so people can hit you up for job opportunities.

#8

Thank you for answering so fast Meloncov! People around me have told me that I miss my place,that I was stupid and all that’s why I’m feeling so bad about it but I really appreciate your advice. I’m going to put all my energy on my demoreel now! :slight_smile:

#9

First of all,I am sorry for the time it take to answer you guys but my account was temporarly on hold :confused:
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Hello cookepuss

Thank you so much for your long answer! I really appreciate it :slight_smile:
I understand fully what you’re saying and you are right I will try to do some freelance I think it’s a really good idea.
Concerning my demoreel, I haven’t really though about posting it because honestly it’s made of old or cartoon stuff and I’m not really into that. The school that I attend was very into “kid” animation field which is great but I don’t love it the way I love movies or video games and I was feeling like I had no other choice but to make one kind of modeling reel. I really want to do what I love now and learn about it in the right way in order to make a really good and passionnate reel.
So I think thanks to your answer I know what to do,I will post regularly to get feedback more often and try to connect with some people out there! I just needed guidance,I tend to listen way to much about what people say and I constantly think about the fact that I already have a 3D bachelor but you’re right I’m “only” 24 ,I will take the time to do things in the right way! As for the studios, I know that mostly they received hundreds of cv per month but it’s just hard to keep the head out of water sometimes,but I will be patient and try to keep faith as you said :slight_smile:

Thank you again!!

link to my demo in case you still want to see it: https://vimeo.com/305491413

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Hello iamhereintheworld and thank you for your time,I understand your point as I was a lead on a student short film during my studies I used to work with other people and I loved it.
However it’s difficult to work in a factory or macdonalds just to pay your rent when you have have a degree and already have the chance to know how it feels to work in a studio even if I was not ready at the time. I just want to work in a field I love and not only do that on y spare time, I know I will someday because I am very passionate and consistent , even when I was making my music I always had a pencil and a sketchbook with me. I just needed some kicking and some advices because it seems to be so long since I worked in the industry I’m starting to loose hope sometimes. I will find some group projects to get better and make a brand new demo :wink:

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wojtekfedunik

Thank you! I will! :slight_smile:
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Spengrob thank you for your answer.
I know that I have to choose specific area, but I didn’t really think about that back then , I think that’s one of the reason I didn’t continue to work right after my internship. I was feeling like I did always the same thing but I know it doesn’t work like that at all. There is always so much to learn. At the time I would focus only on modeling but I haven’t really get my hands on substance or soft like that so I didn’t know if I would like texturing for exemple. I also didn’t know if I was capable of making realistic stuff because I only worked on cartoon style.
I will update my profile right away! Even if I really think I need a new demo :slight_smile: (I am working on new projects now)

#10

OK, I took a look,…HOLY CRAP!! You have problems getting a job with THAT REEL!!! That’s absolutely MINDBOGGLING, Nemow!! :slight_smile: The market in France must be COMPETITIVE, to say the least…?!!

Btw, I did not mean “spare time”, I meant - why don’t you find some storywriters, musicians, etc. and make a movie together with them, and upload to Youtube, and make money directly?? I found out about this right here I think, take a look: artella.com . Please note I’m a pretty crap guy to give advice, as I already said, but, I really think this is the future, it needs to be MADE to work :slight_smile:

Anyway, take care, and if you get rejected from any further jobs, give a kick up the backside to whoever interviewed you - FROM ME! :slight_smile:

#11

Hi, Emma.

Looking at your reel, you have a solid foundation and there’s nothing to be ashamed of. It’s good work.

There are a few surface anatomy issues here and there that could be tweaked or streamlined so that your models have a cleaner “read” about them. However, much of that is either correctable or sheer nitpicking on my part.

Picking out one model, let’s look at Lara. When going cartoony, pushing shapes is probably more important than pushing fine details. Pushing the details as you have makes the hands and aspect of the face look old or weathered, for example. For cartoony models, implied detail sometimes says a lot more than explicit. Les can be more. Look at models for Overwatch or Disney Infinity to see what I’m saying.

I’m not saying that you need to fundamentally change your style. No. Just find that sweet spot where detail contributes, but doesn’t overwhelm the forms. In your reel, it’s all good, but you do fare better on some models more than others. With cartoony stuff, it can be tricky. I get that. It’s why, imo, it pays to start with those key shapes, very slowly add detail, and drive the point home with pose. If even one of those three is off a bit, the whole thing can feel disharmonious.

Always get input as you go along. With tired eyes. it’s not always easy to see if you’ve pushed a model too much or not enough.

From a presentation standpoint, turnarounds and wireframes do the job, but they can feel tiresome and even outdated at times. A bit of clever editing and transitioning from one shot of a model to the next might make the overall presentation feel a bit more current and fresh.

I think that it might also be to your benefit if, at some point, viewers might be able to see your work via Marmoset or Sketchfab. You’ve demonstrated that you can go from high poly sculpts to real-time quality models. Allowing the viewer to take a little peek under the hood can give them a better appreciation for your work. It’d also allow them to inspect your models in ways that a reel might not.

As far as music goes, again, less is more. Honestly? I look at this stuff on mute. I find that music, no matter how good, just distracts.

Overall, I like what you have here. Modeling tweaks aside, it just needs more modern editing and maybe a splash more color in places.

I would say, going forward, there’s no real reason to not do cartoony stuff. You don’t have to make it your focus, but showing that you can do both realistic and stylized work shows that you have range. You’re more valuable if you can be flexible.

ANYWAY… It’s pretty late. Sorry if some of this doesn’t makes that much sense. :slight_smile:

#12

Iamhereintheworld,

Haha it’s nice to hear that! I’m happy that you like my reel! :slight_smile:
Oh I see, I will though about it it’s a good idea, thank you so much for the link, it seems to be really cool!

Thank you again, I will! :wink:

Cheers!

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Cookepuss,

Thank you for all your advices and feedbacks,it means a lot to me as I was so lost a few days ago! I take the time to look into the 3D you suggest me (disney infinity and overwatch) and I think I can see your point now. I will try to focus more on the shape and take the time to do it properly before getting into details. And yeah,I know that there’s stuff on my reel more valuable than other, I will try to focus on less but highter quality in my next one. :slight_smile:

You’re right about the turnarounds, I will try to do more interesting cam in the future as well as edit a little more transitions. I didn’t really think of real time cam like you suggest before now but I will take a look at it! :slight_smile:

Oh… the music…I can’t help myself to put transitions in rythm with the sound but I know it’s not really important though. :wink:

I didn’t think about the fact that various styles can be a good thing,it’s great for me as I tend to like bunch of differents things.

Oh don’t worry it make sense, I really appreciate your help,thank you so much again!

Have a great day ! :slight_smile:

#13

Nemow, as it so happens, I might need some 3D work done - would you be open to collaborating with someone in another country?? Problem is, I don’t know if I can pay French rates, and indeed, whether it’s even possible to pay you from my country - but anyway, do you have an email or something??

#14

I read your post and took a look at your portfolio and your reel. You have a bachelors which will be a huge advantage for you should you decide to focus and stick with this. That is really the first step you need as your skill is about where it needs to be for a student or jr artist I would say you need about 6 to 12 months worth of focused work depending on how much you put in and where you put your effort. There are artist here in LA working for studios at the same level as you but a nice goal for you would be to get good enough to go after the jobs and studios you want not Taking what you can get.

The first thing i suggest is to look at your own portfolio before taking anyones advice. When you look at your portfolio or your reel look at it as if you were evaluating someone for a job at your studio. Which studio do you feel your models make a good fit for?

Choose 3 to 5 studios works you like or would like to work for. Most studios these days have a sizzle reel or their own demo reel. What are the majority of the models they show like. Are they mostly feature animation, Digital Doubles, Hyper Reel, Stylized?

Take a look at some of these studios and their sizzle reels make a list of your own. What type of work do you picture yourself working on?

Dreamworks
Disney
Pixar
Blue Sky

Lightstorm
Weta
ILM
Sony Entertainment
Digital Domain
Rythm and Hues
Aaron Simms

Luma
Zoic
Fuse FX
Psyop
The Mill
MPC

Legacy fx
Gentle Giant
Ironhead
Alliance

Sony Santa Monica
Riot
Blizzard
Respawn
Insomniac

Once you know what studios you want to aim for make a plan for a new reel that focus’s just on that 3 to 5 models on a modeling reel is more than enough for just about any supervisor to see the talent and depth you have. For jr artist and students I only expect them to be able to complete 3 to 5 great models in a year. I prefer 2 to 3 modeled to your best ability than seeing mistakes left unfixed or areas that show your weakness like falling short on hands knuckles feet, ears or areas of hard surface.

Starting with the most competitive character only reel is tough for a jr artist the level of skill you will need to show and education through study and execution will be high and most of your competition will already have 3 to 5 years in the industry. It’s not a reason not to try but it helps you understand the level of effort you will need to put in. The obvious ones like Solid understanding and demonstration of anatomy not just of skeleton and bones but the mechanics of fashion and tech for character props etc. If you take the feature animation route then showing Challening 2d characters that are dificult to translate into 3d is a good exercise think Simpsons/Rick and Morty , In todays market scans are easier than ever but having 1 Likeness to show you can not only model a actor but hit the heatzone that makes them feel like the real world counterpart says a lot about your skill. All of these will depend on what studio you want to work for you wouldnt necessarily put all of this effort into one reel because it may be hard to 1: build skill in all of these areas in such a short period of time and 2: show a studio how you fit with skills that are better fitted for different projects and studios.
Research and understand what each of the below needs to show from asset, skillset and software

A Jr Artist Portfolio
A Sr Modeling Portfolio
A Comercial Modeling Portfolio
A Feature Animation Modeling Portfolio
A Game Modeling Portfolio
A Enviroment Modeling Portfolio
A Look Dev Portfolio

This is one issue with your portfolio at the moment you have several characters and creatures and one hardsurface piece, but the characters dont really feel like they are the same level of stylzation, some look as if you want to go more realistic, and some feel a bit feature animation or game. Helping have a consistancy helps understand where you fit. Most studios are not looking for the next rockstar artist they are looking to fill a seat and not have to babysit.

This piece was close to getting a top row pic this week.

but this piece feels like it is from a different portfolio.

I would love to see you spend another 3 to 5 weeks on a character like this pangohyena-monster. That is if you are going for realizm? At the moment it looks like you could take it either direction. It looks great but i would say it is likely about 70 to 80% of what you are capable of with another 20 to 30% of reference research and discipline I think you could get the hands to a better anatomical place or spend more time on the scales to give them an even more impressive feel. The mouth on this character will say a lot about your understanding and skill so make sure to give it the time you need to make it 100% Most students move on to texturing to early and get bored when they get to 80% that last 20% can feel like it takes 80% of the time and is where your model comes to life. This is the feeling I have for most of your models that you had fun and enjoy modeling but that you should push yourself to stick with them longer and work hard to hit that pro level. Avoid mud/clay renders or any fancy tricks on a jr reel for now focus that time on showing your modeling ability. If you get your models to the point you can’t find anything to fix then explore lighting and rendering that shows it off but only after investing the time in perfecting the models.

Hannah Kang (legacy fx/ Dreamworks) is doing a webinar showing some before and after from a few of her past students and going over some common troubles artist have. If you would like we can have you jump on a session with her to crit a model and do some model overs if you would like some advice and help-for 20 to 30 minutes.

Your work is plenty good enough to stick with it. I enjoy seeing artist at this stage. It is where you can take a year to move forward and grow to grab a spot working professionally so I would encourage you to stick with it. There are cheaper solutions nowadays like Hannahs class that can cut the time in half to getting where you need to be ultimately even with a class its the personal time you spend on doing the work and having target goals and high standards-for yourself

#15

Hello Travis,

I have already taken my decision to focus in this field at 100%, I’m really motivated and your message inspires me a lot. I took the time to analyse every parts and to think thoroughly about it.You offers me very valuable and constructive opinions, Thanks a lot!.

So first of all,It’s really encouraging to know that if I work at 100 % (and I will), I can get pro level within 6 months to one year. I think you understood that I will not be too picky if a studio offers me a job,but if I obtain a really pro level I will knock on the studios’door that would interest me the most even if there are not situed in France.

I have taken a look at my portfolio with fresh eyes and asking myself in which category should I go. I also looked at every single studio that you send me, there were a few ones that I didn’t know and I am very thankful for that list,it made things way easier.
As you could have seen to me it’s not easy to choose one specialisation because I am interested in many things, but I think you’re right it’s now time for me to change and choose one. I think I struggled a lot to improve myself these past months mostly because of that, I have to pick one field and stick with it until I am really good at it. After some thoughful thinking I am seeing myself in the realistic field. I always loved animation features and video games but maybe it’s more a kid memory and scriptwriting love than a real inspiration for me. However , in design speaking, I always loved realistic (but creative) stuff.

It’s a good idea to project in a first time the whole reel before starting a new single project. I will make a plan and target quality over number. I know it will be difficult to get the skills and level of the competition and I know that there’s only a few spots available but I want to believe in me and try. At least this time I will not have regrets. I will continue to learn anatomy,zoology and many things that would help me to increase my level.
I understand what you are saying for the Rick and Morty/Simpsons exemple and that “simple” can be the most complex things in a way. I started to make a classification of every type of portfolio you send me and It will be very useful to visualize the skills that the industry requires right now (and also I find awesome references)

I understand fully what you explain to me about my portfolio and the range of inequiality between my models. I believe there are mostly due to the fact that I tend to lost what I had in mind at the beginning quite often. It was also complicated to me because as I already have said I didn’t know what specialisation I would see myself through.
I see things differently now though, I will be more organised and take the time to do things in the right way. I think I will focus on realism and try to make a new creature in the style of my pangohyena but with taking into account your feedbacks. I really want to find the way to reach that spot that will project me to the next room. I want to find those 20/30% that you mentioned. Clay render is something that my teachers were advicing to me at school but it is true that it become boring quite fast and especially in my reel. Moreover, I don’t really have fun doing that kind of renders it reminds me too much of my studies,I will do something more professional and creative next time! :slight_smile:
If I may ask, do you think it will be really profitable to edit my pangohyena or should I go for a new project? I would rather go for something new that will motivate me more and that I could add on my next reel.

I have seen Hannah’s portfolio and it’s very impresive!! It would be very interesting for me to know what she is thinking about my work, does she suggest to edit the same models or can I use her feedback just to do new projects? I would like to work on new models which match with my new goal. Is a session with her expensive?

Thank you for everything,you have no idea how posts like that inspires me and help me to stick with my dreams. It’s not always easy to work a lot before and after my day job but with advices like that it really push me in working even more to reach my goal. I was really lost a few weeks ago and now I have a detailed plan in mind.
Thank you again for your message and you time ! :slight_smile:

#17

So your current portfolio looks pretty good, but it’s targeted pretty exclusively towards modeling for feature animated films and maybe marketing jobs that imitate that style. There aren’t that many of those jobs out there. I think you’ll have an easier time finding work if you put together some game-ready assets (textured and retopologized) or photoreal work for VFX.