HMC #19 - Cheetara

#61

Okay, I am back believe it or not. :smiley: Work exploded overnight it seems, not that I mind having work of course and then we had family over last week. Phew, busy busy busy.

So I basically started fresh last night on the body. Progress so far.

I made quite a few failed starts at this project, one is below. I wonā€™t show you the god awful head I made. :smiley: Then I scrapped below and remade the zsphere model to the right. Much better.

Brought the model into LW to size it compared to the boots and head. Removed the feet and head geometry which will not be needed. I didnā€™t build the hand geometry at this point because I know Cheetaraā€™s hands will be slightly off normal.

Brought the body back into ZBrush to fix the forms and get it close to the right shape. The far right picture is the retopologized geometry. The figure is basically ready for sculpting now with little change in poly count.

Back into LW, attached the head. Iā€™ll attach the arms tonight and build the hands and then itā€™s ready to continue.

Now that all the craziness of last week is over Iā€™m back on my ā€œfinish at least one thing a nightā€ goal.

So some of you have asked why Iā€™m doing such and such in ZBrush. The answer to all of those questions is because I hate hate hate poly modeling organics. It unnatural and I never get good results. Thats why ZBrush is such a god send, all of the tedious stuff that I was so bad at before is a snap in ZB. If you are not familiar with your ZSpheres you really owe it to yourself to give them a try. Some things that I just hate to do outside of ZBrush: sculpting, laying out organic geometry, UV maps, texture painting etc. Some things that I just have to do in LW because its either not possible or very difficult in ZB: welding points, joining geometry, modeling a head based on reference. So thats why youā€™ll see all of the back and forth stuff. In the case of the boots, because they are hard surface I modeling it in LW but there are quite a bit of wrinkles and such that need to be done in ZB.

Iā€™m not putting down anyone elses method or saying that something doesnā€™t work. Iā€™m saying that it doesnā€™t work for me. If I donā€™t enjoy the process then Iā€™m likely to not finish.

#62

More power to you then. :slight_smile: I certainly can relate with those sentiments.

Good start by the way, no critiques from me as it is way too early. :wink:

#63

Progress for tonight.

So I tried a new approach for the hands. Usually I use the pitchfork zsphere arrangement that is typical. This time I used the below setup. I like the result so far. A lot of crossing polys to clean up.

Got the arms and hands attached. Started on growing her claws. Iā€™ll finish that tomorrow as well as clean up the poly flow in the hands. Just for fun I imported the incomplete model into ZBrush for a test spin. Oh yeah, me like a lot.

I appreciate any C&Cs.

#64

Well you promised us geometry, and finally its here!

Lol interesting approach to modeling, and it seems like you get great results so I`m glad it works for you. Did you retopo in zbrush as well, or just set up your zspheres so that they work? I know next to nothing abour zspheres, except that theyā€™re impossible to control for me.

Lol many would argue that modeling organics is the complete opposite of unnatural. You were probably tired when you wrote that and missed your own pun :twisted:

Glad to see you back in time to spit out yet another HMC winner!

-Rage

#65

Looks like the body is well under way which is awesome news.

I think using zBrush to quickly get out the base mesh is a great plan, itā€™s something Iā€™ve seen a lot of wonderful artists doing in tutorials and timelapse footage. Iā€™ve never been a fan of standards for their own sake, rather standards for the sake of time saving down the road. If this works for you, then more power too you :slight_smile:

On that note, I know you mentioned the hands but I was wondering if youā€™re going to be doing much re-topo work on the rest of the base mesh?

I would imagine that itā€™s not really that important for a still image where you can (a) displace the thing to billions of polys and it doesnā€™t matter and (b) re-sculpt the anatomical bulges for your final pose. However if the character was going to be animated would you do some more re-topo work for your mesh in its current state?

#66

I would definitely retopo before you start any kind of detailing on the hands, as the geometry is pretty messy at this point :smiley:

Not sure really what else to comment on? Proportions are likely to change methinks, and musculature will be added in later, so at this point it is still too early to give any real critiques.

But! I can say that you are off to a fine start. :slight_smile:

#67

@Rage - I used the standard retopo process in ZBrush. ZSpheres always produce boxes and grid patterns. Great for banging out a base mesh but they typically need to be retopologized once you get the basic shape. Some people wait till later in their sculpting, I usually retopo early on so I have more effiecient use of polygons.

And yes, I suppose modeling an organic could be nothing but natural. Tragic puns, you fail me again. :smiley:

@axiomatic - Iā€™m guessing your referring to spots like the torso where its just a grid of polys? For something like that I would just push and pull points around until the shape was right. But for spots like the chest the poly flow was all wrong so it needed to be changed. Now for the current model I do plan to animate it (PLAN being the key word :D) but most of her will be covered in clothes so I probably wonā€™t need to change too much. Iā€™m still not positive though, weā€™ll see.

@Geta-Ve - You are definetly correct on the hands. :smiley: My normal method for hands like I mentioned above is the pitchfork.

It looks goofy but it spreads everything out and keeps the polys clean. However it takes a lot of pushing and pulling to get the shape right. The method Iā€™m using this time produces a much better shape but then there are all of these crossing polys. Not to worry though, this is EZPZ to fix in LW. Delete crap, create joy lol.

Thanks guys.

#68

I avoid ZSpheres at all costsā€¦ I think I should give them another try.

#69

So the weekly CGS TF2 match was last night so Iā€™ll have to make it up with 2 updates today. Canā€™t miss my matches. :smiley:

Repaired the geometry between the middle and ring, adjusted for the knuckles and added the remaining claws for each finger. I think thatā€™s it for the body in LW. Now to work out the clothes and sculpt.

#70

forgive me for the stupid question but is zbrush hard to use?iā€™m trying to model my friendā€™s face for her debut buh polyā€™s are killing me. Especially with the limited reference pix of front and side viewā€¦

#71

In my opinion ZB is hard to use simply because it employs so many of its own techniques that arenā€™t really used anywhere else. Itā€™s akin to programming in one language then having to learn a whole new language to do the same task, so to speak, where both languages are totally different in their approach.

Personally I use Wings3D + Mudbox.

Also, using ZB wonā€™t make your model better if you still have no reference.

@Wyatt. Proportions of the hand looks pretty off at this point, and I would probably retopo the pink and how it connects to the palm, might give you better results when sculpting.

I realize though that a lot of things are likely to change though, so I shall watch eagerly! :smiley:

#72

Zbrush has a bit of a learning curve when it comes to the interface, but it is definitely not hard to use. It is a very versatile and powerful piece of software and there are a lot of tutorials on the net to get you going fairly quickly. Never tried Mudbox personally, but I have heard good things about it too. Just my 2 cents.

#73

Its coming together, just needs some tweaks to sort the hands out, you prolly could retop in z like somone suggested if your sculp dont sort out the joins.
Great stuff.

#74

aw manā€¦i guess a professional always does make it look easy:surprised. Canā€™t wait for this to finish Thunda cats hhoooo:buttrock:

#75

You don`t have to be a professional to produce beautiful work. You are the artist, not zbrush. Zbrush is just a tool. Like anything else in life, you learn how to use your tools, but you use them in your own way. Your imagination is the only limit.

@Wyatt: Your hand looks like it needs some more gemoetry, or different topology in the thumb area, but I understand this is preliminary work, and most likely I`m looking at openGL funkiness. Also, before itā€™s too late, Iā€™d like to make a suggestion (this is not a crit). You may have an easier time in the long run if you extract the claws into a seperate mesh then bring it into zbrush as a subtool. They are well formed right now, and donā€™t really need any extra polys. By the time you get to sub-d 6, youā€™ll have saved yourself a couple hundred thousand polys.

-Rage.

#76

I agree. Fantastic comment.

#77

looking very nice, i donā€™t know about the hand but will see until you finish. Good Luck.

#78

Yes, ZBrush is very hard to use at first. It seems very easy until you realize how different the workflow is from traditional modeling. Now, once you get a grip on the interface and the method it becomes very easy. Like ridiculously easy to get good results.

This may help you in the reference area, use of the Image Plane.
http://www.zbrush.info/docs/index.php/Tutorial:_Sculpting_A_Skull

You should be encouraged then because I am by no means a professional, just a glorified hobbyist. Granted Iā€™m a 15 yr hobbyist. :smiley:

Edit: Additionally just to reiterate what everyone else and Winston from the Ghostbusters said, its not the tools its the talent.

#79

@Geta - You think so? Iā€™m using my hand as reference and its pretty close to those proportions. And Iā€™ve got small girlie hands so that should help. :smiley: Iā€™ll double check it.

@Airflow - I figured the sculpting would but Iā€™ve got the time. Iā€™ll see if I can get rid of the awkward joins and such. Bah, I just want to sculpt. :smiley:

@jhasse - Thanks

@Rage - DUDE, primo advice. Your right, they would subdivide into a very dense mesh. My design was going to give her one gauntlet like in the cartoon. I may give her 2 just so I can have both hands as subtools. Hmm, youā€™ve given me much to ponder.

#80

wow. yeah i am encouraged to learn it now :applause:. Thanks for the link btw, Iā€™ve started learning quite a bit of it with a few digi-tutors i just wish it was vacation already so I could just keep waking up ever morning learning these things:D