HARDCORE MODELING!: QOTRM: Airship Carrier


#1

Hello, my second time entering here, and I’d like to say, this time i won’t get carried away with rendering like before:blush:. I did learn alot in HMC 19 and so I’ve come back to learn some more from you peeps. Anyway, even though school’s been hectic lately I’ll spend time on this one at least 5 hrs everyday when I come home :slight_smile: I could add this up to my portfolio.

Here’s the concept art I made. the center Zeppelin look is metal, like a submarine. Inside it, airplanes are deployed. At it’s sides are 2 blimps to support it in the air and it also has some uhh not sure what it’s called, propellers at the side to support it. Hope the concept is good enough, so many great concepts out there and artist, feels embarassing, but anyway, I like to share my ideas :slight_smile:

This was the 1st version, where the landing and take off was on top of the zeppelin like craft


#2

Don’t be too critical of yourself, I think you have great concept art. Looks like a massive zeppelin, what size airplanes are we talking about? You seem to have a sound plan in mind, which is always important. Wish you luck.

Cheers and God bless.


#3

I like the idea of the central hanger and the two pylon supports.

One thing you might run into is the centre hanger feeling very visually heavy. You might want to look to minimizing its profile or making it more of an open framework. If the central section doesn’t feel like it can be supported by the two zeppelins then the whole visual won’t be as strong.


#4

@BlenderFan-thanks, World War 2 like planes. Except I’ll change their look, make it more of a fantasy like plane
:slight_smile:
@Telvin_3D- yeah, bout that, i was thinking of addint a third one on top…or making the supporting blimps bigger then the one at the center to support it.


#5

ok, so i had time to spare at school and started with the supporting blimps. I modeled it with a plane and just special duplicated it around since i wanted to get a bumpy look on it like this:

but then there’s a problem whenever i do a fill hole on the model. It gives this kinda look:

feels kind of annoying to look at but at the same time i’ts ok with me since the focus wouldn;t be on them but still. It looks annoying. Any tips to fix it to make it look smooth?


#6

Great concept razeverius. I like your design. I agree that the supports should be bigger than the main hull, though.

As for your wacky open gl funkiness, there are several solutions. What you have, there, is what’s called an n-gon, which is a poly with more than 4 sides(quad). n-gons act funny when smoothed, since a smooth operation esentially splits all polys in 4,8,16 etc depending on the level of subdivision, and smooths it in that sense. What’s happening on your model is that your quads are being smoothed, but the n-gon (which has a VERY high amount of edges), doesn’t smooth so well. The operation is trying to do it’s best, but you end up with drawing errors in the open gl view, and most probably in the render as well.

Here is the idea behind a blimp or zeppelin (it is important to do research on your subject and understand the machinations behind it). There is a steel frame, split into triangles or quads (usually quads, I believe), then there is a canvas stretched over the entire structure. So, not only do you have ribbed edges flowing along the length, you would typically have ribbed edge rings going across the surface as well. Seeing the zeppelin in this light, you can create a cylinder with how ever many subdivisions you like (these would represent the actual metal structure under the canvas. You can then set these edges as hard edges (using edge weight-I can’t remember where the option is in maya, but you can ask your teacher). When you smooth the entire poly model, your edges should maintain crisp edges. If there is no edge weight tool in maya (again, I really can’t remember), you can select all your edges and under the normal menu, lock normals. This should have the same effect. Regardless, the following is an example of smoothing under different circumstances. I used Modo. These following examples only show how to deal with the caps, and not the hard edges.

1)This is a simple cylinder, one segment, 2 caps, that has been smoothed. You can clearly see how the caps get screwy.

2)I’ve added 1 edgeloop in the center, and made a large bevel on the edges of the cap set at 2 segments (this is the equivalent of extruding, pulling and scaling down the caps twice). Here you can notice that the cylinder is starting to really retain its shape after the smooth operation, but its still not perfect. Those caps are still giving me drawing errors because there’s just so many edges.

3)Here I’ve beveled the cap in one more time-the smaller the cap gets, the less the drawing errors are noticeable, but they are still there.

4)What I did here was colapse the final cap. All the points for the caps converted into 1 point, which STILL isn’t ideal, I’ve essentially created the opposite of a giant ngon. A pole (1 point) which has 12 edges associated to it. I would definitely have drawing errors on this one, as poles of this density also give off poor shading when smoothed, so I took it a step further. When you collapse a poly like I did, you end up with a whole lot of triangles. I selected every OTHER edge and deleted them. This gave me an entire quad setup at the poles. Granted, the shape is wrong for a zeppelin, but the technique would be the same. You would just have to shape it better than I did.

You can take this technique and combine it with the hard edge/edge-lock normal technique that I mentioned earlier, and you should be able to achieve exactly what you want with the best polygon economy.

One last option: You can select ALL of the edges, and run a bevel on them. When you smooth, you will get crisp edges, just like a zeppelin has. The only trouble with this is, if you get into the habit of doing it this way (the easy way) You end up with a CRAP load of polygons and this can drastically increase render time once you get to the end. Good topology and polygon economy should be something that you are conscious of throughout the modeling process.

Hope this helped. Clearly I had time lol. I just noticed the novel I wrote haha. Anyway, good luck in the challenge man and I look forward to some updates.

PS: By smooth, I was talking about convert to sub-d. My apologies for the confusion, if any. IN modo, polys and sub-d’s are one and the same, so I always call it smoothing.

Cheers

-Rage

edit: I realized my images were fuzzy, so threw in a closeup example of the poles, in tris and quads.


#7

WOW! Thanks Rage! That solved my problem, and i learned what an n-gon is haha…oh yeah, I don’t really know any teachers in our school who are 3d profs since our 3d class would start next year but I was really excited to learn in advance so I started ahead, and end up learning here most of the time. hhmm i don’t really know what else to say, except thanks. that is quite long what you typed out and explained a lot :). Good luck to you too.


#8

I seriously could not get this off of my mind. so instead of just trying what Rage said on a sample cylinder I took it seriously onto my model

now that that’s done. I better get back to practicing charcoal sketching for tomorrow’s exam :). Again thanks for the long explanation Rage. I hope what I did is what you were advising:beer:


#9

Great Razeverius. Exactly what I was saying. Your Zeppelin now looks 100 times better already. Now just don’t forget about the crossbeams on the inside. They are more subtle, but still there. Check out this picture, and you’ll see what I mean. They follow a more organic curve so tend to look much smoother, but they are still there and provide a tiny little bit of bump across the entire model.

you may be able to get the perfect look just by adding those edgerings onto your model. If not, you can try giving them a little weight (value about 5-10%)-look in the edge menu…there should be a an option for weight. It might be in the poly menu too. Regardless, incorporating these techniques will give you the subtle look you are looking for, and it will give your model uniform quads, which is a good thing (both for subdividing and for laying out UV’s).

Good luck

-Rage

PS: Random thought: When I was learning modeling, my teacher suggested that i test settings by using tiny values then gigantic values to more brutally see the difference. ie, talking about edge weight…try playing with it at 0.1, then 100, to clearly see the effects…or take ambient color in the hypershade. put it at 0.1, then put it at something rediculous like 5000(it doesn’t go up to 5000, but if you click on the color swatch, a color palette will come up and you can manually set the value there (HSV). This is something that helped me out a great deal when I was trying to figure out what all these random names I had never heard of were used for, and their effects.


#10

@Rage-Thank you sir for the advices as for the crossbeams, they are equally distributed right? I’ve searched up pix of zeppelins and they look a lot. About what you’ve said this one:

“or take ambient color in the hypershade. put it at 0.1, then put it at something rediculous like 5000(it doesn’t go up to 5000, but if you click on the color swatch, a color palette will come up and you can manually set the value there (HSV).”

I didn’t quite get what you were saying.

Updates:

I love playing Splinter Cell I’m a fan of how cool Sam Fisher looks and then it hit me, what if I add some rotor at the side of the supporting zeps, one on each zeps or make that 2 just like the V-22 Osprey, and so here are some concepts I made for the rotors:

not yet sure which one to use since these are just early sketches.


#11

Basically, what I was saying is that it’s really helpful to understand what ANY setting does if you set it at a very low value, take a look, then set it at a very HIGH value, and take a look at what happens. The results are incredibly drastic, and usually not something you would use, but it gives a great perspective on what is happening when you use the slider. The ambient color was just an example of this. When dealing with HSV (Hue, saturation, value-another way to calculate color would be RGB-red, green,blue). When using HSV, a value of 1 is white, and a value of 0 is black. In the color swatch, you can numerically enter hue, saturation, or value. When you put the value higher than 1, it acts as a multiplier and generates light (kinda). you can also enter a negative amount, which would actually suck light out of the scene (and you get pretty cool effects in your scenes this way). In essence, when dealing with sliders and trying to learn what they do, try the extremes and see what happens. From there you can roll the settings down to what looks good, and you actually know what maya is doing in order to achieve the look you want.

BTW, I like the 1st concept the best :slight_smile:

-Rage


#12

ahhh i see now, something like experimenting around right? what did u mean by 1st concept? the zeppelin launching planes on top or u mean the rotor blade?

Updates:

Just like to do this a lot back when i knew little about maya. started with that 3d gear tutorial from highend3d about rendering using HDRI so until now i do that for test renders:


#13

hhmm not sure which steel bar design should i use.

on the first one, im going to add these like things that go through the hole. The second one stays like that.


#14

i love Zeppelins - looking forward to seeing this develop for sure!


#15

Great, keep the nice work.


#16

@Intervain and JMART-Thanks guys. Just need to wait one more week for school requirements to be done and I’ll be able to work on this some more :smiley:


#17

not much updates. Just came from school, charcoal exams. My brain isn’t functioning wel lright now. lacks creativity but oh well here’s what i have:

that’s the support for the cable that’ll run down to the main craft. I was thinking of making something like these:

so yeah, those are my ideas. Goodnight :slight_smile:


#18

Go GO GO! your concept is coming along nicely. I would personally prefer the crossbeams. Makes it look more mechanical. Waiting so see more updates!:buttrock:


#19

so here’s how the one holding the cable look like:

might make it look bigger or maybe not anymore since it feels like its big enough already


#20

more updates. Next is going to be the rotor that will support the zep on flying