Good university In UK / Need Info!

#21

Of course I will have my own projects, my dream is after all working for myself… Youtube or Website, whatever. But to get here isn’t as easy, at least for me :). So I will work for someone first… to gain experience, etc… and have my own projects on the side.

About the taking another degree in maths or engineering… hmmm… you got me kinda thinking.
I still have 3 years to decide what I’m gonna do… I will talk to my parents and friends… but of course the final call will be mine. I hope I make a good decision, one that I will not regret.

Thank you,
Daniel

#22

Or get qualified as an electrician or a plumber - it’s good money and steady job. If you learn how to use your mind in logical manner you’ll be a better 3d guy than people with art background. You can always learn color theory but you cannot learn hard work. The only problem here is that employers and others will profile you and may ghettoize you (Oh god, another wanna-be artist from 7/11 night-shift) so…architecture is better after all. On the other hand Hollywood produced a handful of stars who came from the very bottom. Hilary Swank is one of my favorites and in terms of perseverance Thomas Jane.

Don’t get conned into game design / animation studies - if you do consider them do the following (CGmaciej’s guide to exposing 3d teaching scammers):

1.Look up your professors on Linkedin and Google search, from junior to principal.
2.Check their background.
3.Look for their portfolio.
4.Check their formal education.
5.Compute ratio of good vs bad.

It someone hasn’t got a portfolio in 3d and is lacking formal education it’s highly suspicious. Two things decide here: either good University (top 20 within teaching field), or portfolio. Having neither means it’s a scam and department is run by a clueless guy who’s interested in plucking you out of spinach.

There’s also 3d “boot-camps” like Escape studios. More often than not when employers see this on your CV they think you cannot think for yourself and for 9k / course better to get an i7 with 2 graphics cards and a lifetime at Digital Tutors.

Consulting / teaching scams on the margin of VFX industry make more money than the actual VFX houses so becareful.

#23

Hi Daniel

I consulted my university’s interpretation of Portuguese examinations and this is what it looks like, I hope it makes sense to you.

We need you to pass all the subjects in your Certificado de fim de Estudos Secundários, and Mathematics must be past at a minimum score of at least 10. Apparently we do not recognise the English exam within your course, so you will need to pass an IELTS with 6.0 or higher as well. You need to pass two of your subjects at a minimum score of 14 -17, and one other with a score of 10 - 13, and that would give you the equivalent to 280 UCAS points (our entry requirements).

If it’s any help for you if you are applying anywhere with higher requirements, each of your subjects in the Certificado is considered the equivalent of an English A-level, and English students usually study three or four of these before applying for university.

English A level grade A = Certificado grade 18 - 20 = UCAS Points 120
English A level grade B = Certificado grade 14 - 17 = UCAS Points 100
English A level grade C = Certificado grade 10 - 13 = UCAS Points 80

So if you apply somewhere that wants say 320 UCAS points you can see that you would need two scores of 14 -17 and one score of 18 -20. Obviously check with each university because the NARIC guidelines are considered guidelines and open to interpretation by each university - we don’t accept the English part of the Certificado, but other universities might do so for example.

#24

maciej and leigh… Thanks for your input. I will most probably study Visual Effects/3d though. Even if you think it’s worthless. But yeah, I did say most probably!

Moid, thank you so much! But one thing, the grade of the subject is from the 12th year? or an average of a 10,11 and 12th years? Because some subjects, like chemistry we don’t have it in the 12th grade. So how does it work? It would make sense being an average of all the grades of that subject. And another thing, I’m choosing science, If I would have chosen humanities it would be much easier to get really good grades. I’m just asking if the area matters, a guy who chooses science has the same chance of getting in the university as the guy who chooses humanities*?

Thanks! And sorry for so much trouble!!!

  • The subjects are different,in humanities you have geography instead of biology, history instead of chemistry and German instead of math.
#25

I’m not sure - this is where the guidelines are not clear at all… at the end of your final year of study would you not receive a certificate of some sort listing the subjects you took and the final grades you gained for them? The final grades for UK A-levels are a mixture of exams and coursework, so you could say that they are an average of several scores - does that help?

My university / course does not distinguish between what subjects you take - so that can either be a good thing (you’ve chosen science and are not studying art, but we prefer to judge someone by their portfolio, so as long as your grades are high enough we don’t mind what subjects they are in) or a bad thing (choosing an easier subject means you’d have higher final scores for applying to university). Obviously for some degree courses, your choice of previous subject matter is essential - you’d want someone who was studying to be a doctor to have already studied Biology at school for example! We would prefer an applicant that had an art subject, but we are also aware that some people have natural talent in that area, so we will interview someone without art qualifications if we think their portfolio is good. I think most UK animation courses will not mind what subjects you have studied previously as long as your portfolio is strong enough (obviously check this though, I can only really give advice for the universities I have taught at).

#26

I e-mailed some other universities and most of them really didn’t care about what I would take. But for a couple of them you need to have an artistic subject and a more mathematical one. And I can always take extra subjects!

But you see… If you choose arts, except for architecture you can’t really get something out of it! Of course visual effects/3d is an art, but you know… I hope you accept me if I go with science in the 10th grade, I mean after all… there is only a couple of subjects that will change… and If I have the drawing skills and mathematical skills I will get in a uni. At least from what I heard :smiley:

I do not know If you receive something in the end of the final year. I will ask around!

Next year, I will go to UK and visit every university I have in my mind! I will ask more detailed questions there.

Anyways, thank you a lot for this, you can’t imagine how much you helped me out!

#27 
I'd say that it doesn't as long as it's a good University and you're willing to invest your own time - humanities can be useful.

[This person](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1401798/) graduated with an English Literature degree and teaches lip-sync and face-animation. But how many like him are there - persistent enough to conduct their own research and learn CAD from scratch, with passion for film-making (that's why I suggested Architecture - think area / environment design / shape / form / spatial intel - last but not least visualizations).

[This guy here](http://vimeo.com/39908083) is a protege of the former and a former plumber (look Linkedin - proud plumber). So hm...you can - rags to riches - just like Thomas Jane and Hilary Swank I mentioned before (or at least recognition).

What I want to see yet is Mumbai- rags to Hollywood-riches (not Bollywood) yet and not in a movie by Danny Boyle (awesome idea by the way). Do the math.

Architecture grad.

edit: I’m just trying to save your life pal. You deserve good University and good studies if you’re serious - and best teachers. Thing is Universities will lie to you and so will teachers. So look for their individual involvement in creative projects and individual portfolios (not University portfolios made up from past grads’ work) - if there’s nothing or little on the internet it’s most likely a lie. Good teachers take pride in their work and you’ll see them on immdb or their work displayed on their own sites (don’t forget you’d be their competition also - they’re as keen on making money as anyone - but at least they deserve respect because they’re there to help you - not to hinder you, like the pretenders.

#28

I never said humanities wasn’t useful, everything is useful, from science to arts, to languages to history, etc…

Okay look. Let’s remember one thing, I do not like and won’t do anything that I am at least a bit passionate about, and that’s why architecture and being a plumber is totally out. So no, I will choose everything so I can end up being a vfx artist. Because that is my dream, to create something new, that didn’t exist, make an idea come true. And hopefully being my own boss, we live in 2012, there is o much stuff to do, to explore, to create, to try. Why would I go away of my dream and be a plumber? Seriously, with all the respect sir, I will follow my dream and I will do everything I can to succeed.

Thanks for the input. Have a good day.

#29

Don’t scuttle into your hole Bilbo. Because plumber is as good as an architect if you have determination, bit of luck and connections and a much better trade in state of emergency (like the nurse, electrician or a fireman - backbone of society, not the VFX artist in any case).

“I’m sorry I cannot stem the bleeding because I was only taught VFX.”

“I don’t wanna die, I don’t wanna die, I don’t wanna die!” scream

“I deduct you’re going to die my dear but I cannot stand the sight of blood, I apologize”.

#30

Why the discouragement, CGmaciej? He wants to be a VFX artist, so let him do that. Just because, from what it seems, you personally haven’t managed to be successful as an artist, that doesn’t mean you should go around discouraging others from doing so.

I’ve been making a very good living in VFX for more than 12 years now. Sure, the industry can be rather unstable but it’s never really been a serious problem for me. On the contrary I enjoy a high standard of living and I have a job I enjoy. If everyone sought to become, as you put it, a “backbone of society”, we would have no art, no entertainment, no philosophy, etc. And what with all these austerity cuts to public services these days, I daresay an artist in a private company has better job prospects right now than firemen and nurses.

#31

I do, however, wholeheartedly agree with this. The overwhelming majority of CG-related courses on offer around the world are a complete waste of time, courses taught by recent graduates with little to no industry experience being run in order to cash in on the popularity of CG. If the person teaching you is lacking actual industry experience, don’t waste your money, as they’re unlikely to be able to properly prepare you for employment in the field.

#32

Thanks for supporting me. When a person can’t achieve success they start hating on others. In this case trying to discourage me, but he couldn’t do it…

Of course there is a need to have every job in society. I do not want to be in my 80’s and think that I could have done something better, that I could have chosen to be someone else, someone that would create, not fix. If I’m telling you that I want to be a vfx artist, why are you trying to negate it? It’s not of your business who I will be and what will I accomplish in my life. If you haven’t been successful in yours and you are now a plumber or something, there is nothing wrong with it. But don’t try to say I will have the same life.

And about these

“I’m sorry I cannot stem the bleeding because I was only taught VFX.” “I don’t wanna die, I don’t wanna die, I don’t wanna die!” scream “I deduct you’re going to die my dear but I cannot stand the sight of blood, I apologize”.
I just laughed at your ignorance. I opened 5 different organs until now, and will open them again next year. I know Biology better than you could imagine. You’re terribly wrong If you think I fear blood.

So fix those plumbs, while I, create art. :wink:

#33

Yes, do not worry, I’m sticking with websites that have industry guys with a lot of experience, not just a random 19 year old trying to do a tut for cash :slight_smile:

#34

I wasn’t implying at you because I don’t know you - I was just saying. I wish I was a qualified plumber - like Harry there. These are your assumptions. I’ve done much worse jobs in my life.

Anyway you’re taking my comments the wrong way because you’re young and you haven’t studied in England. I’m just telling you that VFX should be your hobby / passion not the thing to orbit your life around professionally (until you find actual employment in VFX).

CG is not an art form - it’s more of a job description. Salvador Dali was an artist from a prominent family (he had no choice and it would take hell of an idiot to not to be recognized) - just like with many “artists”.

Art is an effort - Paul Rand. All the best.

#35

I realize that I do not have any experience with jobs. But, there are so many companies looking for vfx artist. I mean… you don’t really have to be a 3d guy! You can be a matte painter, a roto artist, 3d modeler, etc… And even If you don’t want to work with these, publicity is worth a lot a money, working in a publicity company, being a graphic designer, hell you can work on the vfx of a local television show… man… you can get your name out there and work with other people. And on the side having your own projects!! So when you can make money out of your own stuff, you will be on the top of your world. And that’s why I didn’t quite understand those comments of yours. But yeah.

Look, You can disagree with me and say that cg is not an art. Meh, maybe it’s not. Maybe it is. Cinema is an art, painting is an art, digital painting in the cinema becomes an art because it gives you the feeling the vfx artist wanted to give you.

It was nice meeting you. Don’t worry with my life, we don’t even know each other, you gave me some advice, and I appreciate that. But nothing more.

#36

I was reading through this and thought I’d give a bit of info on the school that I go to in Denmark - it’s not in the UK I know, but it teaches exclusively in English, and the tuition fee is much, much cheaper than in the UK because Denmark enjoys free education. All you pay is the materials fee - about €295 a month. I myself am from the UK but came over here after hearing about the school :slight_smile: so I understand the bonus that being in the EU gives you. The school is quite small but has a good reputation because it’s so focused and has a fair number of 3D and animation companies working out of the school itself.

It’s called the Animation Workshop (http://www.animwork.dk/en/) and it runs two Bachelor degree courses - one in Animation and one in Computer Graphic Arts which teaches both 2D and 3D but mainly focuses on 3D. In CG you spend the first year learning Maya, Photoshop, After Effects and Mudbox with a generalist approach to 3D, in addition to matte painting, design, storyboarding and other 2D related skills. In 2nd year you build on what you know and progress from there with more software (Nuke etc.). Finally, in 3rd year you spend the entire year making a film with a group of students both from your own course and the animation course. You can choose to do a game instead if you wish, but the school is quite film focused. All of our teachers currently work in the industry and don’t teach as a full time job, which can be bad but usually works out well because the school has been around for a while and they’ve worked out who’s good - we have a lot of teachers come over from the studios in London and some from even further afield - this year for instance we had a rigging teacher from Dreamworks for a couple of weeks.

As far as entry requirements go, as long as you have completed a high school education the entry is completely portfolio based. You can find more about the portfolio requirements on the website, but if you get through the initial portfolio round, you then go on to do an interview and timed test, after which point they will let you know if you’ve been accepted. There is one problem with this school if you are really 3D/VFX based - they really think that good 3D is backed up with good drawing skills, and the portfolio requirements reflect this. They run a semester long drawing course for those who want it, but it costs a bunch so you’re better off just starting now and practicing if you want to come to the school.

It’s a great school anyway, some amazing teachers - you aren’t in a big city at all but you become a better artist because it gives you the time to concentrate on your work. It’s a great atmosphere and I’d really recommend it if you want to check the school out on the website.

#37

Hey! Thank you! Look, uhm, that is a good option. I would prefer UK though but it looks really good.

About the drawing part, do not worry, almost every university does a drawing exam, so I will practice with my mom, she teaches art professionally. I can drawn, but not at a really high level, so I will try to get that skill at it’s best before entering any university!

But yeah, Denmark. My goal was to study in England and then live there and work there. I’m tired of Portugal. And you realize when you go to a university in a place they will give you like a path to get a job in that area/country. And living in Denmark, it would be like living in Portugal, I mean I guess it would, because they are really small countries, but I only guess, I don’t know :). But yeah, If I was already living in Denmark, I would go there with no further thinking, It looks amazing!

It’s a really hard choice, but I will consider your input, thank you again!

If anyone has any further info of any other Uni, please comment!

#38

Hello!

I couldn’t avoid to follow the thread between Maciej, Leigh and you without having a word about it. I am currently studying a 3D masters in London, and you might not want to hear this but what Maciej is telling you is true. I am not suggesting go plumbing if that’s not what you want to do for a living (I guess Maciej didn’t suggest that either but was easy to misread) but, by all means, follow the advise Leigh gave regarding researching all the staff and don’t throw your money to the trash bin, or at least be mentally prepared to attend a course with people who will only pop up once or twice per week with a “to do” list, a deadline, seriously dated video tutorials, and the difference between an A+ and a B- is whether you self-trained in youtube or paid some digitalTutors membership on the side. If you are not careful enough, you will end up paying 11k only for a piece of paper that nobody cares about besides your parents (because back on the day it mattered, but nowadays, and specially in this industry, your portfolio is what matters) and friends (because their parents told them so). Also, if you are planning to get a job in England afterwards, bare in mind they are not giving working visas anymore unless the company sponsors you directly, and for that, UKBA requires for the company to demonstrate nobody else in the UK can do the task… so you have to be very, very good on what you do… and anywhere in the world, for that matter.

#39

No problem, I know it’s hard looking for good schools, a lot of people on here have been through it. Thanks for listening to the advice, as well.

The only thing I would say in response to the studying being a path to working in the UK thing - be careful with this. I’m sure there are a lot of great unis worth going to in the UK, but it might be worth considering other places that have just as good connections and aren’t going to cost £27,000 for your studies in tuition fees alone. It’s hard enough to earn money in this kind of work. Also remember that a lot of work in Europe is based out of London and France, especially in animation - you might want to explore some other countries because there’s a good chance you’ll end up in one of those two anyway :slight_smile:

I don’t see being in Denmark as being ‘away from it all’ in the UK. We have really good contacts over here with the studios in London, like Cinesite, Framestore and elsewhere, like Aardman, because people who are currently working there come to teach in Denmark during the weeks they have off, which is how our school works. Really look into things like that when you’re doing your research - you can go to a great university and not get anywhere because, even though it’s in the right country, it’s quite academically focused and therefore removed from the industry. That’s a massive barrier to getting a job - one of the most important things you can do is make contacts within the industry. A lot of the time this is what will get you jobs in the future, because then you’ll be the guy people think of when they think ‘hey, I need a modeller…,’ and who wouldn’t rather give jobs to friends - people they know they get along with, rather than complete strangers. Not saying that skill isn’t a massive factor - it definitely is, but this is a small industry and knowing people is a huge part of that.

But good luck searching! I understand wanting to move out of a small country, and the prospect of big cities like London is exciting. It’s great that you’re looking into it now and really know what you want to do - I wish I was so sure when I was your age. Good luck anyway :slight_smile: I hope you find what you’re looking for.

#40

Yeah! Thanks! But the thing is, I will have to pay for my own uni(Of course my parents will pay the expenses like food and school materials), and I will do this with a Portuguese student loan that gives the opportunity to go study in London and you will pay your loan when you’re working. I think if you earn 4k € a month you need to pay them 250€, something like that, With absolutely no rate (like paying 10% more or something) until you complete the whole schools tuition. And If you don’t receive more than 1.5k€ a month, you will not pay them a cent… It’s plus if you end up working on a minimum wage or something, but I hope it will never happen to us!
I have a lot of friends that are studying in England this way and enjoying it a lot.

And yeah, after all I still have 3 years to decide, I will look up to other student loans and other unis around EU and see what I can get. I’m just more on the uk side because of that loan… It has given a lot of chances to many people!

Thanks! And hope you have a good vfx life :smiley: