FORUM PRIMER: The Unofficial Truth about The Industry


Spare me the condescension. Furthermore, you’re still not making any sense. You come into a thread aimed at giving advice for people who want to break into a field in order to make a living at it, and complain about the fact that the post has a professional (ie money making) slant? Surely the words “the industry” in the thread title were enough of a clue that this thread wasn’t going to meet your apparently high and mighty standards of artistic purity? Take your starving artist complex somewhere else.

Loving the irony of such an obvious error in a sentence suggesting that I learn how to read, by the way.

If you learn to read you can easily decipher the my meaning

I would also suggest that you take your own advice in this regard. Why you decided to post bitching that you can’t afford colleges and whatnot, when the original post quite specifically states these are not necessary, is really quite a mystery to me.


I feel Uiliam has a point if CG is related to the good arts. Somehow
i felt an agony for survival in some discussions which is a little
indifferential to those of us that come here just to learn. I’m a
self-taught painter and sketcher who works in a different profession-retail
sales specifically and i’d like to learn something about pc art with much
respect to any proffecional. Is such a person welcome here or this is
no place for amateurs?
And Uiliam i approve your passion but not your tone-no offence.


Remember, this is a business. There’s a product, market, and target audience. In the end, artists are at the mercy of suits with their check books.


First and foremost these forums support 3D applications that are used as a standard in the movie and video game industries and will invariably focus their attention on modeling and animating for the industry. Hobbyists and those who simply create for creating sake should understand that this site will cater towards professional standards first and hobbyists second.

I mean come on, look around at the adverts and the site menu for Gorobei’s sake!
How many hobbyist sites have active job threads and interviews with people currently in the industry? I am somewhat a hobbyist, yet I have no illusions that this is a website for professionals first and hobbyists second, which is why soft-core poser-renders don’t do well here. (And YES, I use poser/Daz)


Posted by Takezo 300I:“Hobbyists and those who simply create for creating sake should understand that this site will cater towards professional standards first and hobbyists second.”

Actually i was adressing Mr Leigh but if you're right there's nothing to

learn about art here just maybe see some finished work. And yes i have
no idea how any site is supposed to look and i don’t care-i use the
internet only for useful information. Yet i understand that the concept
“create for creating shake” can seem strange to a modern western guy
and that’s sad.


I am not a man; please don’t assume everyone on the internet is male.

Furthermore, considering the vast majority of members of this site are amateur artists, I am really not sure what your point is.


Don’t be naive to the arrogance that will be exhibited by some “Professionals”.

There is probably a lot of art featured on this site that is for non-profit/personal projects, “art for art’s sake”. However, because such work is posted alongside work from talented-professionals that do it for a living, it too will be of a very high standard. The reason being that no mature, self-respecting person, will want to submit work that is of inferior-quality to that of the modal-average.

This means that whilst there may be lots of “hobbyists” on this site, they will be self-taught people who have invested a lot of time and effort to achieve their level of ability. For that reason they aren’t going to be too sympathetic to someone asking stupid questions, (questions that are answered by reading the application’s help-files) or expecting to create stuff of the quality that they have seen in the latest films etc after using the application for only a month.

So in effect, the attitude of the professional and the hobbyist-of-a-professional-standard to the complete novice will be very similar. Basically sod off and teach yourself for a year, then come back and ask sensible questions and be very critical of your own work. Why should the experts spend their time helping a complete novice, when that novice has put no effort in whatsoever.

In contrast, what irritates me more than “novice-hobbyists” asking for help with problems that are answered in the documentation included with their application, is complete novices trying to sell stuff. Turbo squid is littered with people trying to sell absolute crap. So I can identify with why the “money making slant”, or “professionalism” can leave a disgusting taste in the mouth. As there are lots of people trying to sell utter shite in order to try and make a fast buck.


You guys must be new, while the job listings and the portfolio sections are very prominent they are the more recent additions. Granted, I wasn’t on this site from the beginning but I’ve always found it to be about the art. Yes, a lot of the membership are professionals but that doesn’t really change anything. You go to any corner of this site and you will find helpful people who are very willing to lend a hand or information when asked.

I remember the old ‘RTFM’ attitude, but that was usually because you were dealing with someone with pirated software and nothing grated legitimate owners more. Of course Uiliam was talking about Blender so that shouldn’t be an issue at all. If you aren’t satisfied with the help here I’m sure you can find help at the Blender forums… well at least I suppose you can.


I find the pained artist crap really annoying, especially when you have a go at people who do it for a profession. Painters, dancers, singers, film-makers and any other “artist” you care to name use their art to earn money.

And if you’re really so artistic and want to remain pure- stick to pen and paper.


Well said and done. PERIOD.

Be the BEST at whatever you are doing. In CG industry, good is not an answer, the BEST is.

I never had the money to go to CG school. Everything I know was self taught. The first app I ever learned was a 2D, particle illusion by Michael Keller, writer and director of encouraged me to stick with what I’m doing and be the best in it, never give up. Priceless advice.

Now I know particle illusion by heart. My pro emitter was used by many users and studios around the world. I spot a lot of my work in TV commercials (Eden FX) and TV shows (American IDOL), and in Chinese movie series.

I was hired by Studio Pendulum as 2D Special Effects Artist on Frontline: Fuel of War and Paraworld. The studio never asked me for school degree. They only asked to see my best work and that’s all they need and to help complete their cinematic project.

I hope this enlighten some you guys.



My apologies Leigh for my mistake. And for all the following posts
i never asked anyone for help -i learn by myself but only if i’m pre-
sented with something worth learning. And for the guy that suggested
to stick to pen and paper i also didn’t ask his advice except he’s
the inventor of pc. (not that it hurts to use the pen occasionally).
And of course i don’t plan to sell anything. Anyone of you who needs
help with a project 3d or compositing can rely on my unpaid
help in my limited free time.


An inspiring and helpful thread. :slight_smile: A well-deserved sticky! This covered so many aspects and topics that are constantly being discussed at my university on a daily basis. Some things are common sense, but it is sometimes difficult to get the information “straight from the horses mouth.”

Thank you for sharing this- it is invaluable. :slight_smile:

I do have a question however… It is related to getting a job, particularly CV’s. When you mention about how graduates are (understandably) outdoing their predecessors, how can I know when I would be considered (I am graduating this year) an expert in Maya, etc? On a lot of CV’s, you often find people stating their proficiency’s with software. For example, I will see a senior TD who will say they are an expert in Maya - how would that be “measured?” Is it relevant to put on a CV, and how can you judge what level to put, or is that up to industry to decide what level you are at? I feel very confident with what I do and I specialize, therefore I would feel compelled to put advanced, but do not want to give the wrong impression… I hope this makes sense. Thank you.


If someone claimed to be an expert in Maya, I would expect them to know the software absolutely inside out.

I consider myself an expert in Photoshop. I’ve been using it for 15 years, I’ve been on the beta team for about six years, I’ve written more articles and book chapters about it than I care to remember, and I can answer pretty much any question anyone asks me about not only its tools, but also any techniques required for creating anything in it. So I’d expect someone who calls themselves an expert in Maya to have the same proficiency in it as I have in Photoshop.


Thank you for your reply. I agree with this statement. This is the impression I had, but wanted to see what others thought. :slight_smile: Thanks for clearing that up for me!


I think people put the emphasis on the best at this the best using this software it comes down to 4 main areas in an interview / selection process.

To make the cut you dont necessarily have to have the best demo real but it should at lest cover the aspects of the area your applying for .

When you get the interview saying your the best at something shows right away your not willing to learn. There is always room for growth .

Present well , a lot of top companies in 3d have tours with executives from the film industry to over see projects while there being made .

Have a dvd with you of your latest works . And keep your portfolio up to date . And make sure if your applying for a job that requires 4 years experience that you can prove that on the day with references .

Nothing worse than looking over incomplete applications and resumes .



 Actually, I might've been a bit short-sighted on that one, while the profession is highly valuable at this site, it is not as exclusive as I first thought, as I now know that most here view art as a whole; that it is measured by effort/desire than by title alone...I first got that impression when a lot of poser artists were being scolded for their version of a modeler/creator of 3D art as being a cheap short-cut to modeling, and in fairness it [i]is[/i]  as far as the strict definition goes. ([i]As I can tell you, modeling those chess pieces in max, were a frightfully boring bit of labor, as I'm too "right hemisphere" for that type of sculpting I prefer Zbrush/Mudbox[/i]) I especially understand that perspective when considering the glut of soft-core fetish-pose-n-paste jobs. Unfortunately, "Poser" Artists who take the effort in customizing textures, semi-modeling ([i]Zbrushing the standard models[/i].) and taking the time to complete a complex composition/animation, would inevitably become lumped in the same boat as the cheapo-soft-core-crowd. The same thing as most "Traditionalists"  ([i]Much like my Art history/Drawing Teacher[/i]) view 3D Artists as "cheap imitations" of "Real"Artists  [i]And we all know THAT'S not true![/i] as Modelers see Poser Artists as cheap imitations as 3D Artists/Modelers.
 In actuality there's a marked difference between a modeler who has spent hours and days at a time with their craft (Polygonal/Spline<--frightfully boring if you're a clay sculptor like me!) and someone who simply loads a pre-made paste-a-pic and calls it 3D art!...However, it's another when someone Sculpts-by-the-numbers vs someone who takes hours/days to *customize those same pre-made models and weeks preparing the lighting, animation/composition using pre-made tools/models. *(Zbrush/Mudbox incl) It's all about effort and dedication. Because even the best modelers need to delegate their models at some time to different animators/lighting and composting artists as much as animators/lighting and composting artists must be able to utilize the model/s given to them. If either tries to take short-cuts, their work suffers...See the connection here? 
 So I guess I'm saying that I was incorrect in my first assessment of viewing this site as a Pro's first, Hobbyist second. Which I found was incorrect, yet effort and consistent growth, is a much valued commodity here.[/left]



Very interesting thoughts. I think everyone who tries to create
something beautiful to please oneself is an artist.That does not
exclude being payed or pursuing other people’s approval-but
i’m sure if it was all about money and fame noone would
produce real art. And i also never got the stereotype of the
pained or even sick artist and i don’t agree with absent or
ugly crap presented as “progressive art”. Also i inform you
that many of us who lived as kids in a non-pc world had and
still have many cool ideas about 3d and animation we just
didn’t have the means back then. So i believe everyone should
be welcome in an artistic -even proffecional site. After all
let’s leave money chasing to other kinds of people.


thank you. It was so so helpfull!


Feelows, what you’re talkin’ 'bout?)))))))

That’s, excuse my text, damned nothing. Isn’t it?)))))))))

Why you so engaged by some mathematical things. “Photoshop, Maya” Lol and Lol multiply by three. The art is artistic language to publish your ideas, your ideas about life about your meanings and your emotional look at the world. Does matter what are you using to bring your ideas? It’s just some buttons and no more. The artist would paint his pictures by ashes from cigarette, if he can’t find his brush. Does matter how one do his art? I suppose it isn’t. The art is the life, and art is 'bout life of each of us. Art is each moment of life.


Maths is very important in 3d drawing. For instance, if you need to draw a cylinder that has a certain volume for a fluid simulation etc.

Or if you need to rotate a cylinder along the ground (like a car wheel).

Or if you need to manually animate an object in free-fall using equations such as S=S0+V0(t)+1/2(act^2).

Or if you need to draw an octagonal slanting roof, with all of the roof sections aligning perfectly. (each roof section is rotated say 30-degrees in the horizontal and then 45-degrees from one another in the vertical, what are the dimensions of the roof-sections in order to align perfectly?)

The list goes on and on. If you just create pretty 2D pictures, then no, you don’t need to be good at maths. However, if you want to be any good at creating non-organic items then yes you do.

Try and model a football without maths, a sphere comprised of Hexagons and Pentagons all aligning perfectly.