Extremely high-detail with displacement maps!

#1

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77779

Finally, a way for patch modellers to create extremely high-detail meshes. Imagine being able to make a low-patch model in A:M, then using ZBrush to generate a high-detail displacement map. All we need is a way to get a good low-poly model exported out of A:M. Then, of coarse, we’d need to be able to import the UVs back into A:M (there has to be a way for Hash to make this work!). Just read through that thread and imagine the possibilities… Then, email Hash and bug them about this great new technology;).

#2

Originally posted by Hookflash
[B]http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77779

Finally, a way for patch modellers to create extremely high-detail meshes. Imagine being able to make a low-patch model in A:M, then using ZBrush to generate a high-detail displacement map. All we need is a way to get a good low-poly model exported out of A:M. Then, of coarse, we’d need to be able to import the UVs back into A:M (there has to be a way for Hash to make this work!). Just read through that thread and imagine the possibilities… Then, email Hash and bug them about this great new technology;). [/B]

Hook your dreaming, I told you I was bugging them about this for a long time. Even with the OBJ export the 5 pointers dont work and AM has its own way of doing UV’s. You can make a low poly model in ZB and export it to AM as an OBJ, then use the same model and turn it into a high res version make all the details you want and get the displacement map you want. Getting the map into AM and using it is a different story.

That thread is talking about normal mapping and I have no idea how AM would be able to do that.

#3

dfaris: We just have to bug them some more. Perhaps if one of us posted something on the mailing list? I’m sure they could think of a way to get UVs back into A:M (or even just convert the map itself). They’re pretty smart;).

EDIT: Ah, I see what you mean about the normal vs. displacement mapping. Yeah, I suppose it would require an overhaul of the renderer. However, could similar results be achieved with really high-detail (ie, 16-bit) displacement maps? Isn’t that what Pixolator uses in his 6-step example?

#4

Maybe, you should ask for a way to paint directly on the patch model within the A:M interface? ZBrush costs as much as A:M does, wouldn’t it be better to just have that functionality of 3D painting in A:M?

A module similar to Deep Paint or Z brush as part of the program? You can already use displacement maps in your decals, It’s the 3D painting that is appealing…

#5

Originally posted by zandoria
[B]Maybe, you should ask for a way to paint directly on the patch model within the A:M interface? ZBrush costs as much as A:M does, wouldn’t it be better to just have that functionality of 3D painting in A:M?

A module similar to Deep Paint or Z brush as part of the program? You can already use displacement maps in your decals, It’s the 3D painting that is appealing… [/B]

Well, I don’t think this level of detail would be possible with Hash patches in realtime. That’s why we need displacement maps, and I don’t know if A:M can currently use 16-bit maps (or even if it’s method of using them is adequate)…? The great thing about ZBrush isn’t necessarily the 3d painting, but rather the ability to sculpt details in models with 1 million+ polys. Of coarse, if Hash does decide to add 3d painting tools to A:M, I certainly won’t complain;).

#6

3d painting tools are one of my big requests too. They would solve a lot of problems. Coupled with quality bump mapping and the possibilities would open up enormously. It’s just down to whether the people at hash are up for it.

#7

Whatever 3d painting solution Hash came up with would pale in comparison to subdividing and sculpting in ZBrush. Bear in mind that ZBrush produces a displacement map by comparing the modified high-res model with the original low-res model that you imported. This map is used with the low-res model (ouch… I sound like a pretentious, patronizing prick, don’t I?;)). Because of this, it should work very well if Hash gives us a way to get UVs back into A:M from an unmodified exported low-res poly model. ZBrush is quite affordable to boot!

#8

Originally posted by Hookflash

This map is used with the low-res model (ouch… I sound like a pretentious, patronizing prick, don’t I?;)).

Now that you mention it, yes.

:scream:

#9

Originally posted by Chewey
[B]Now that you mention it, yes.

:scream: [/B]

Wow, you’re even following me into the Animation Master forums? That’s rather creepy… :curious:

#10

Originally posted by Hookflash
Wow, you’re even following me into the Animation Master forums? That’s rather creepy… :curious:

No need for worry actually, I was surprised to see that you’re using AM.
Is it your main 3d ap?

#11

Originally posted by Chewey
No need for worry actually, I was surprised to see that you’re using AM.
Is it your main 3d ap?

Yep (as long as Hash stays on top of things).

#12

I bought AM years ago for my last Mac and couldn’t get it to operate well enough on that beast so I moved on to Lightwave. Nevertheless, a capable ap for those who can keep it going. I should dust off that old copy and see how well my Shade Pro ap exports its spline geometry over to the AM format.

#13

Originally posted by Hookflash
Whatever 3d painting solution Hash came up with would pale in comparison to subdividing and sculpting in ZBrush. Bear in mind that ZBrush produces a displacement map by comparing the modified high-res model with the original low-res model that you imported. This map is used with the low-res model (ouch… I sound like a pretentious, patronizing prick, don’t I?;)). Because of this, it should work very well if Hash gives us a way to get UVs back into A:M from an unmodified exported low-res poly model. ZBrush is quite affordable to boot!

Well, let’s see… wasn’t there an OBJ exporter for Hash made recently, that works with decals and UVs?

What you could do is create the patch model, then cover it completely with a series of decals that all share the same texture in different UV space.

(Note: In A:M, if several decals are using the same texture, and you edit a particular decal, you get to see all the parts of the mesh that are using the decal’s texture. Handy for real-time work that just uses, say, a 512x512 square for all the model’s texturing.)

Anyway, once you have the model textured with this ‘primer’, you export it as an OBJ using that new plug-in, import it into ZBrush, and start doing the displacement painting. Any texture you get from ZBrush you should be able to insert right into the A:M model…

…I think, anyway…

-Sean Givan

#14

Originally posted by Hookflash
Well, I don’t think this level of detail would be possible with Hash patches in realtime. That’s why we need displacement maps, and I don’t know if A:M can currently use 16-bit maps (or even if it’s method of using them is adequate)…? The great thing about ZBrush isn’t necessarily the 3d painting, but rather the ability to sculpt details in models with 1 million+ polys. Of coarse, if Hash does decide to add 3d painting tools to A:M, I certainly won’t complain;).

I dont think displacment mapping is going to help you that much even if you do get it to work with AM, well it might help with smaller models but with lots of models or a big model your gonna slow the renderer down to a crawl. The this is with displacment maps the renderer subdivides the mesh at render time and with a big model you might be better off modeling the details.

Now normal mapping you dont get that subdivisions at render time because normal mapping is kinda like a bump map with extra channels of info in it, now making a normal map from a model that has the detail modeled into it like in ZB is where the power comes in you dont have to worry about anything but how the model looks and how much detail you want, then let the computer do the rest.

Dave

#15

These samples were rendered with renderman, and along with mentalRay and one other render (was it Reyz?), it supports sub-pixel displacement maps. These are way faster, use less memory and have much higher detail than the standard tesselated displacement maps used by AM (Maya, Max, LW and others). How they do it, I don’t know!

So to get this working nicely in AM, we would first need sub-pixel displacement maps. If I remeber correctly I sent this as a feature request to Hash a few years ago. :slight_smile:

Ragnar

#16

Bear in mind that the “armor” image created by Pixolator seems to use only displacement maps with the standard ZBrush renderer. I could be wrong, of coarse;).

#17

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