EIAS Review

#61

I’m repeating this for effect!:slight_smile:

…with the knives and booleans. No-one has these tools (together in the same interface) and they are so what designers are looking for.

#62

when i say ‘re-topo’ i mean in the generic sense. literally taking the fact models, deleting everything but the wire and re-polying that, then extruding it.

this is the definition of tedium…

i literally could train a monkey to do this step in the process…
(no disrespect intended to any monkey’s reading this…)

#63

Hi Paul, yes, the days are gone when the people responsible for progressing C4D were the same people selling it.
There seems to be a slight air of complacency as everything c4d has gone up in price by 10%.
I don’t really know anything about what’s in the c4d pipeline, but it may be enhancements to AR and probably more to CA- I doubt anything else will change unless there’s a few more tweaks to the modelling features which lag way behind Modo.

Where and what are you working from presently- what’s your ‘base’, you seem to be using quite a few programs. What’s the Rhino/Brazil combination like? Is Tesla necessary for Rhino users?

Martin K

#64

Yes, I agree with this. With Animator, there’s too much obsession with CA- get all the other basic things right first like good pre vis of materials and a working texture placement facility. It might then become a program you could actually use…
Re c4d, it may be a bit rough around the edges, import mesh poorly, but it enables you to actually get a job done quickly and produce a result.
It seems to me that some don’t see the importance of moving EI to having the very basic requirements necessary to get a project started by introducing fundamental features which are able to compete with what’s on offer else where.
Obviously the modeller is a first step, but as you said it needs to appeal to those who live with Illustrator. I probably use Illustrator more than any other application if you count out Photoshop. I use Illustrator for all desktop publishing and would use it for import into c4d, if c4d didn’t have such good bezier tools.
I don’t get on atall with bezier tools in EIM- they need sorting.

Martin K

#65

Wow, Paul and Juanxer, you are right on. Years ago EI had 2 zax plugins WITHIN EI.
EPS Invigerator and Vector Lathe. Also animateable IN EI. I used those to death, they were awesome. What makes invigerator stand apart from other attempts at Bevel generators or what have you, is the many settings a DESIGNER would use with text. You can easily choke a shape, have different bevels for inner and outer vectors not to mention
independently adjust the inner outer percentage of bevel, a 100 bevel on the letter A might look just right but the center of the A would ‘plug’ up with that setting, just adjust the center
to 50 and the readability of the A works.

I hope to talk with Zax in the next week about something else, but I have to ask him about
EI and his products. Make a 3d plug in for EI please : )

#66

Scott, your work rocks. But regardless of how C4D handles sucks at beveling or their nurbs system is too old. I love their mograph module and the capbilities of their sweep nurbs,thier thinking particles are not so easy of use but used with mograph it can be a good weapon for mographers, i am sorry but i have to say their aniamtion system in my work slap ANimator in the face. But when it comes to rendering time i missed EI.

#67

C4D is a good example of many things done right - stability, marketing and like you said, sufficient tools to get the job done. They used to be a hungry company - I guess feeling one has made it can change operating basis.

I don’t have a real base these days.

I use EIM/EI, Modo and Rhino/Brazil and each program/combo has something to offer and has definite strenghts.

Most of the work I do is hard-edge, reflective/refractive graphics so tend to gravitate to the tools needed to do that sort of thing quickly.

EIM/EI is great - at times I’ll hesitate to do a job there feeling some of the newer tools can get me finished faster and looking better but there will be just a certain thing I am looking for and EI is the only render which will give it to me. I love EIM for a lot of stuff and keep my use of some of the esoteric tools to a bare minimum. Some just didn’t work right or are not forgiving at all. EI’s procedural shaders are second to none in the apps I’ve used. Amazingly organic, rich in detail - I’ve been spending some time with some of the new toolset in V7 - it’s very well put together and does what it’s supposed to do.

Modo is a work in progress. I don’t use SubDs very often so Modo doesn’t get used as much as I thought I might. Some stuff has to be a SDS approach so that’s where I’ll go. I love thae fact that it’s IPR is so fast and accurate. It’s hard to go back to doing test renders after being spoiled but it’s material system doesn’t feel completely comfortable to me. I’ve used the .3dm import and export pluggin and it talks with Rhino quite well. It isn’t very friendly for graphic designers - it’s curve generation and eps stuff completely sucks:-) but for SDS it’s amazing. It’s rendering engine is missing a few things which keep me from using it more. Only one reflection map per scene - huge over-sight for my type of work. It’s also lacking the clarity in reflections and refractions - a bit smudged though not bad. Procedurals are very, very basic. I love it’s gradients and area shadow and GI speed. …woah! But, at times when you need to turn things up for quality the speed diminishes quickly.

Brazil/Rhino - my new sweetheart…sort of. There is some very nice stuff in both apps but also some holes too. Brazil is in beta and I can feel it is taking it’s tole on me. There seems to be a memory leak somewhere and eventually find myself at the desktop. Good rendering features but can be slow for some of the 2nd generation stuff. But at least it has it. Rhino is a killer app…but, it still doesn’t handle some of the basic ‘solids’ things as well as EIM or Viacad. Fillets and Booleans are fair-good but not great. What is great is working in a modeler which gives me 85%-90% of what I need which now has a render which gives me 85-90% too. Some stuff is very fast in Brazil but it is lacking a lot in Rhino…mostly procedurals (Max had some half decent ones) and it’s inability to go higher-res than about 8X10 on medium scenes without crashing. Obviously beta and maybe different by the time of release. It’s a good combo but I have a feeling it’s eventual user-base might be very small so the future may not be a bright as I would like to see. No animation and it’s procedurals pretty lame in comparison to EI, it’s texture mapping is very basic and makes EI look very polished in comparison…it can read just about any format which makes everything flow smoothly.

A number of jobs I’ve rendered in all three apps to see which one I like best - it’s been mostly EI and Brazil - Modo doesn’t quite hold up to these for the type of work I do…but that IPR is wonderful.

I do like having a render in a modeler so if Tesla can get things together well it might be a great tool to use. I’m hoping Kishore gets it right. It might take a few versions but all of the raw materials are there to work with.

#68

Thanks Paul, for the in depth reply. EI could go places if it can get the essentials fixed, what with the new modeller if it delivers…

Martin K

#69

hey Ediris, sounds like a render challenge to me. Ill take on ANY mograph cinema 4d artist
in a given project. My guess is I will finish the modeling texturing and animation much faster than my c4d counterparts. And with cameras beautiful output there will be no doubt
who’s final is more visually appealing! ( I love challenges and im ready to be ‘slapped around’ as you put it :wink:

The guy who replaced me at FOX when I left was a Cinema 4d Pro as HE put it. Check out
his reel at – red-army.net – most all of his backgrounds were done by ME or by New Yorks Fox maya guys so dismiss those, he did not do them the foreground stuff is his. Check out the shading subtleties, shadows, reflections etc, in his fox work and compare them to my reels fox elements. Lighting and shadowing etc. And he’s a self proclaimed PRO. He is a pretty good animator in general, its just the output quality is just off a bit.
That cinema renderer is not friendly to him. Please do not bother him personally with this, its just a good EI output vs cinema output comparison.

In conclusion, Im all for as many 3d apps in the market we can get. Choice rules. Paul is
a great example of someone using a variety of tools. But as you can tell, I have a problem with people who have not used EI or used it years ago, ripping it.

EI’s future is bright and FULL of growth. Its a good time to get into EI\Tesla people,
Other apps are getting stagnant while EITG is building a good framework for the future…

#70

I’ve used EIAS very recently on a big job, and while I’m not ripping it, I get beyond frustrated with it for many reasons. Animation wise for what I do, C4D spanks EI. Rendering speed and quality is a different matter. C4D is lacking in this department, hence my want for Camera to open itself up. Camera whoops it’s ass, no argument there. But from object/fbx imports with textures to material management, to a superior Morphing system, highend working weightmaps, excellent well thought out gui…etc. C4D takes the cake.

Trust me, I truly want EIAS to kick ass again! :buttrock:

#71

Please no program wars in the thread.

#72

no flame wars? how about a nice water baloon fight Brian?

I love all things about all apps! : )

#73

Hello Scott, dont get me wrong i do love Camera and the image quality in your reel is the sharpest i have seen from any mographer out there but i am just suggesting to EITG to get some good pointers from all apps in my experience i can talk for Cinema, guys like onesize.nl and hypa.tv had made some good quality images check out their site also. I am a EI user so i will love to see my product get out there to the studios so they can get enough profit to make a better product and more plug ins available for the community and evrybody happy :slight_smile: .Grettings from Spain.

#74

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