EIAS Review

#1

Be sure to check it out and comment to the article.

http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=4491

#2

Nice choice of imagery Brian, and a well written, thourough review. This is dynamite
exposure for EI. Brad and EITG should be thrilled with your fair and accurate review and
commentary.

Great Job!

#3

Interesting and maybe too honest to get anyone interested in purchasing or continuing to use EI…
John Knoll talks a bit about EI in the latest ‘Modcast’ at Luxology’s site. He also mentions another app he is using and very much taken with…
With reference to John Knolls comments, I’d say that I think perhaps many users of EI are too much ‘on top of it’ to see what really needs doing. By this, I mean, that to me, it appears as if whoever designed the interface was dyxlexic.
Sometimes when we say ‘right’ we actually mean ‘right’, but sometimes we mean ‘left’, and sometimes we mean neither… Some times when you want more you dial in less and sometimes when you want less you dial in more. There may be a very nerdy technical reason for all this, but the new user doesn’t want all this to struggle with. More meaningful visual feed back would overcome this to an extent.
I’m sure the re emergence of Modeller will be a great help to EI, depending on how much it will actually be able to do.

Martin K

#4

Im not sure what your getting at Martin. Up is Down and Down is Up? John Knoll?

I noticed your a Cinema user, (from your web page) Have you tried EI V7? Im guessing not. This review comes from someone who has a stellar 3d and visual effects background. I believe he does mostly pre-vis work for film in Maya now. His review tells me that EI is a serious 3d tool to consider. One of the best price\capability 3d apps in our industry. The interface is fine. Improving it is fine too if need be. But its easy to learn and get great looking results fast with arguably the best renderer out there. I doubt CG Talk would give this review such a prominent ‘front page’ billing if it wasn’t a serious
Pro app to consider. Bigger is certainly NOT always better.

I Use Maya and EI. I used cinema years ago and found it was trying way to hard to add features and not stability or image quality, it layed claim to fast rendering, but when you factor in antialiasing and sampling levels and god forbid enabling motion blur, well its just not very speedy, compared to EI its pretty slow. it continued to, up until recently try and be a poor mans Maya, now all of a sudden, its a motion graphics 3d app. You spend nearly 4 grand just to get all the features cinema offers. And you still require close to a Maya like learning curve. In the right hands, any 3d app can put out some nice work
and Cinema users certainly can, some of your still work is pretty nice. But the main point of my rambling on and on here, is, like it or not, EI has NOT gone away, and WONT be going away. Its newest version is arguably its best since its most “famous” version of 2.9
For me, its a delight to use, its solid, and it implements things like hdri and image based lighting in a far easier way than any other app. No, character animators will not flock to EI, they never really have, most hi end character stuff is still mostly done in Maya. But I strongly feel 3d artists should embrace the ‘re-emergance’ so to speak, of another hi end option for our creative toolboxes. I like choice, dont you?
Pay a whopping $575 -$795 for EI and I personally can get an artist up and running in an 8 hour day. (Im not cheap : ) ) By far the easier to learn app. Version 7 is a great upgrade with most every feature a mograph artist could want or need in a fast turnaround environment. Not to mention EI has a much faster development cycle (v8 is not real far away) And the announcement, and from what I understand, very cool release of Tesla, a new standalone modeler written from the ground up. And its going to be hard not to at least take notice. The more affordable hi end tools the better!!

#5

Good & Honest review.

Thanks Brian!

Cheers

Hans

#6

Brian, good review, nice and honest. I like how you threw in if EI could render RIB files. Opening up Camera to other apps would make EI so much money :buttrock:

I think what Martin means are all the little things most old school EI users know as second nature. Such as the material window use of transparencies. In many instances a change of .1 or even .01 and create huge differences in output.

Hi Scott, Cinema pre version 10…I totally agree with you. v10 and now 10.5 is an entirely different animal. EI really needs to take a lesson on GUI design from Maxon. Everything is extremely thought out in this area. Interface redesign is not simply a window color change…that’s absolutely pointless. Interface workflow/Design is a HUGE and possibly one of the most important features of all. When you step inside other apps, you see how truly behind EI is in this area.

#7

I don’t rule out getting Tesla, and am probably prepared to pay more for it than some users here, if it’s any good…
I intend spending more time with Modo and testing it for large projects, which currently I’m doing with c4d.Martin K

#8

Nice article.
there was no other choice other then to be painful truthful and Brian was.
EI has its strengths which make it a great 3d choice for certain things…
but its a long way from being where it needs to be.

I have upgraded to the current version and am looking for EI to continue doing the
things it needs to do in order to be competitive again.

#9

Yeah, I think you get the gist of what I say about EI! Re C4D some of the GUI features in Vs105 are nice, but in real terms as a stills producer, 10.5 offers nothing over my current Vs 8.5 and I have to pay over £700 to even begin to consider getting vRay. Modo might be a solution- I’m still learning it when I get the time. The developers at EITG have a long ways to go yet and I’d like to see the fundamentals right. These are modelling and texture placement ease, plus some meaningful visual feedback like a larger more lively preview- it doesn’t necessarily have to be at the level of virtual instant render quality like c4d & Modo, just a larger preview than current and something that doesn’t take a week to update.

Martin K

#10

Hey Martin
10.5 added a lotfor me :wink: But I’m not a stills producer.

EI’s Material preview ball needs a big revamp as does texture previews on objects. I have not opened my v7 yet so hopefully it’s been addressed, but on huge scenes with textures previewed on multiple objects, the textures start to get mixed up and start getting placed on the wrong objects. Again, hopefully this is fixed in 7 cause it was annoying!

#11

I just listened to the Mocast with the interview of John Knoll - a good listen for anyone interested in any sort of digital imaging.

He talks a little about looking for a 2nd generation app and the features needed…and then a few words about 1st generation 3D apps.

It’s interesting watching the market right now as new 2nd gen apps are startng to come out and become mainstream…and first gen apps try to keep their foothold and stay current. Many 1st gens are trying to stay relevant by adding on new features but still feel like a bit of a throw-back…and 2nd gen apps, with lots of features lack some of the refinded interface subtlties easily found in 1st gens.

John mentions lack of visable motion curves in Modo as an example.

I’ve been using Brazil4Rhino a lot in my current work and while it has some great features I’m finding the lack of 1st gen refinements can get in the way. Same with Modo - great app but stuff like light include/exclude selection lists and multiple ref maps per scene (while will eventually get implemented) can be back to work-around land. Incredibly fast GI though.

I always found C4D trying so hard to add on new stuff and never going back to really evolve some existing features. For example their nurbs tools…same tools I used in the mid 90’s and really haven’t changed much. The interface has been greatly improved but the extrude with bevels tool is just dying to get a reworking. One of the most needed and used tools in motion graphics but left to wither away:-)

I am hoping Tesla will be a good solid move into a real 2nd generation app. Good robust forward-thinking modern tools. I am hoping it isn’t just a bit of a face lift to earlier technology. Keep the interface…that’s a great example of 1st gen done right. If Camera gets ported to it I hope a real 2nd gen version gets developed and not more of the same as in EI where camera and animator don’t communicate much to each other.

I strongly believe we are in a transition period right now in 3D…or maybe it’s always in transition. I’m not positive. Apps like Maya and Max are currently in need for a huge over-haul and will probably lead much of the way as I think they are still viewed as the leaders in their fields.

Before I forget - Good article Brian!

#12

I SERIOUSLY hope Brad is getting a 10x10 booth at SIGGraph. Hell, I’d even drive over to work the booth.

Okay, sure, it costs money for the booth but I’ll bet you can ask some of the L.A. users to lend them a few computers. This could be done guerilla-style.

#13

Just a reminder guys…there is an official “Discuss this Article” thread in CG:News so be sure to put your comments there too. I opened this one for “the locals” in this forum to inform everyone that the article is up and to handle potential “non article” related issues.

#14

(a tiny typo in the article: the EIM/Tesla engine shows as “ASIC” there instead of ACIS)

It has been interesting to read such a review, so unafraid to point at flaws, rigorous but hopeful.

#15

Martin and other comments about c4d and EI -

#1 I have to agree with you Martin and others that the texture placement tools and previews are very weak.

#2 I am NOT aware if cinema V10 or higher has largely improved on it main weaknesses.
if it has, great.

#3 For Animation, not stills, EI is faster than Cinema. It also seems Martin, that I am dead on with the cost for ownership for cinema. (you can get V7 for $495 right now!)

#4 I admit to being enormously jealous and frustrated with Maxons strangle hold with so
many mo-graph animation houses. As Paul or John knoll stated, its just not a lean mean mograph app. Its too cluttered, good interface or not.

  But Maxon markets itself very well, and saturates the web with ads.  EI just cant get the word out consistently.  I hope that changes soon, cuz learning Maya is taking me a while to get my arms around.

  This Review is a great start.
#16

Hey Brian,

Its always good to read EIAS reviews… and you are a Artist which knows the EIAS Pros and Cons… and have a positive wish to see EIAS better and better.

Thanksss

btw: Blair… I want to see a booth too. EIAS need guerila marketing.

Tomas

#17

$495 is a fair price for EI. Camera is worth $495 alone. I’d purchase a stand alone version of Camera for C4D for more than $495 actually. The only thing Cinema is lacking is a very speedy renderer, Camera slaughters C4D. It’s the only thing I really miss when not working in EI.

Camera Rocks, and I’m glad that was stated in Brians review. That needs to be the selling point for EI. And the free render nodes. A huge feature that EI never seems to really market. Thanks Brian for mention that in your review too.

#18

Having Camera available as a stand alone renderer in other apps would be incredible. It’s really the reason I bought EI in the first place. I’d pony up cash for that any day.

#19

I read and like the review as well. But i quite don´t understand how this should work with .rib files. A while ago i played with Silo and 3DLight, because to see what´s all about with this.rib file format. I assume than that EI must be completely renewed to understand this Renderman (Shading) Language? What should this be good for? I think not many use Renderman, maybe a few Studios like Pixar etc. Would EIAS users benefit from a Renderman compatible app?

Regards
Stefan

#20

The primary benefit of allowing Camera to render RIB files would be to make Camera accessible to outside 3D animation applications other than Animator. You’re right, it would take extensive effort to make such a thing happen, but I decided to mention it as a subtle suggestion…right along with making Camera multithreaded. Either one of these suggestions would take months of implementation to work…but multithreading is far more likely than RIB. The Igors are wanting Camera to compete with the likes of Vray, Brazil, Mental Ray and so forth…well, I think Renderman RIB compatibility would increase the attractiveness of Camera and open EI back up into the film industry.