early 19th century london matte WIP

#1

I decided to take up the challenge given by everlite - dave using 2 live plate and using a set extension to create an early 19th century london in christmas winter.

Original plate:
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/2007/dsc0136bj9.jpg

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/8599/dsc0149fc5.jpg

WIP-1 Initial mock up and composition

I spend around 1hr moving the 2 images around to find a good composition i like and align the perspective of the two. I also did a few tidy patch work and remove the bits i don’t want.

the initial idea is create a scenery that give audience a very posh old london high street feel. the big white chuck on the right will be extended using 3D model to create a grand hotel entrance. I also try to anticipate camera movement, where I imagine the actor/actress will be coming out from the hotel entrance and follow him/her walking down the road.

#2

A few notes to begin with:

Have you added perspective/construction lines? The right side is leaning to the right; make it vertical. Also its a little higher compared to the left. And the one thing that stands out most for me; the streets are too tight, open it up more, needs to have a more grand feel, with a width equal to another section of the path maybe. Also remember to keep the lamps, you can repeat these all the way down. Remember the infinite look, the street will need to be extended at least three times, so maybe a case of duplicating, scaling down and adding to the end, remembering to add varitation.

Hope that helps a little for now :slight_smile:

Keep it up.

Edit: Also if interested, the street is chester terrace, london. next to the zoo.

Dave.

#3

yes, i am aware of the few issues u mention.

  • yes, i have constructed the persp line:

  • the floor doesn’t match because two image has a different horizon and VP to begin with, and I aligned two horizon together to match the perspective. I will probably recreate the entire floor

  • As in the reason the street feels too tight, i think its because the buildings are very tall in this aspect ratio, so I have also consider take out the 2nd floor to make the buildings lower and more open feel.

  • I intend to reintroduce the lamps back in, but the original position is awkard and its like standing in the middle of the road not on the side of the pavement. I have cut out the design of the lamp and probably will model it in 3D, which I think will give me more flexibility later on.

#4

I still think you can need to open them up, quite literally the gap between the buildings needs to be wider, even if its just to create a more cinematic feel, and standing in the road isn’t such a bad thing :slight_smile: Also there’s no need to remove a level.

You just need to seperate the path from the buildings, then you should be able to get away with modifying the sides as you wish.

Dave.

#5

Everlite and MileDream: Mind if I join in on this? Looks like a challenge to take. And a good practice too.

#6

Everlite and MileDream: Mind if I join in on this? Looks like a challenge to take. And a good practice too.

Feel free, though please make a new post.

Dave.

#7

Started my own thread.

#8

update:

WIP2

still a lot to do :slight_smile:

#9

Looking interesting so far. A few notes:

The left side on the horizon seems to be cross the street, i undertand why you have it like this but really needs pull back to the left a little. Also if your going for the pariod theme then this will probably be less noticable given the about of mist and fog back then.

The foreground right side still needs to be more vertical i think, looks to be leaning back in the middle.

I’d also like to see a little more space between the rows, maybe pull the right side further to the right, along with the right path.

If the black patch in the background is the london horizon then its waay too high.

The foreground path (right side) and left side of road seems very stretched. the stones in the road will also have more relief maybe, and not the same stones as the path. Might be worth digging out some pariod photography and seeing. Not sure.

Yeh, regarding the over all surface, find refs, looking a little flat and 3d looking.

I understand this is still work in progress and appeciate some of what i said may be coming later :slight_smile:

Keep it up.
Dave.

#10

keeping an eye on this one. looks like a great setup so far. keep the updates coming :slight_smile:

#11

At this moment I think I will focus on nailing down the composition rather then the detail. I think there is still a lot more room for adjustment because I am not entirely happy with the composition yet. I think i will want the street to curve and goin on a slope sligh and probably adding more space to the left, so there is more for the camera to pan around.

I try force myself not to focus on detail at the moment, because at the end they may be covered in snow or other texture or lights I might add later on.

#12

Regarding the curve, this probably wont work, especially given the distance and style. I do think the end is currently cause an issue, maybe cut it off at the end on the left, where the last dark grey roof is, and have a park or simply the rest of the city behind this. Yeh curving the street will be bad for composition, teh strenth from this shot will come from the strong perspective, which really needs to be as streight and central as possible. I’d recommend splitting off and trying both approaches, see which works better. I still feel its leaning off to the right too much though. Oh and try flipping the painting and work on it like that for a few days, give a fresh perspective.

Dave.

#13

Ok, i’ve dug out a few photos i took in march. Just uploading, please see link:

http://www.capturefx.co.uk/web/london_02.rar

Note the lighting is very different but no serious shadows or anything, so should be able to tone down. Its worth noting, always even the lighting out across all elements before adding it back in, then you have a uniform canvas to work with.

Hope that helps,

Dave.

#14

update: WIP3

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/2050/19thlondonwip31qg7.jpg

oh my god, there is still so much to do. now it feels like 3 wks won’t be enough

Just a few note b4 i wrap up for today.
Since I can’t curve the street, I decided to give it a slope feel at the end of the road and I break up the buildings on the left, so it won’t feel like all the buildings is line up in a straight line, which I find compositionally boring. I also will make the light source setting on the low-left side, so some light will shine through the gap between the buildings, hopefully will add some interest to the painting.

Also, I decided to move on to maya for now and model the close up elements in 3D, it helps me visualize the design better and I am sick of doing patch work and correcting perspective in PS.

The extreme close up building on the right will be 3d as I hinted in WIP3. Also, I will build a similar building on the left side further down, sort of correspond to the close up one because the audience can bare see what it is. I think will make the ground a 3d plane as well, so I can map a flat 2d painted texture on it and everything will be in perspective without stretching.

so plenty to expect from me in the next WIP :slight_smile:

#15

This is coming along nicely!

Since I have been struggling with the same problems myself, I know it’s a lot of work. =)

I hope you didn’t feel offended when I started to struggle with this same assignment. I have zero experience as matte painter and this seemed like too good learning opportunity to miss.

The perspective is a real bitch to get right. When stretched, the proportions quickly get unnatural, and the geometry needs to be fixed with slicing the buildings to bits and rearranging them to resemble the original.

After nearly a day of struggling with two original houses, I finally managed to get them to the point where they don’t disturb me anymore (not to say they are “right” or “good” in any way).

When looking at your right side house, I’d say you need to stretch the top left corner of the house. The fasade seems to lean towards right.

I like the city you are making. It has a nice feel to it. It’s always funny how two different takes on the same subject can yield so different results.

Now, when looked through your latest developements I think I need to stretch my whole image. It’s vertically too flat.

I’m trying to push my artistic ambitions to the backburner with this and concentrate on executing the painting meticulously following Everlite’s guidance.

Funny. My view of matte painting so far has been breathtaking panoramic sceneries of fantasy and scifi. And by doing this I can already see the error of my ways.

Keep this up, and let’s see where this assignment takes us!

#16

Ok, my thoughts on the latest version. Im liking the distant cityline, though i feel this should hold off until near the end. The buildings to the distant left seem to be working on with the foreground.

I’m slightly worried about the incline, looks a little too steep. Maybe the street is a touch wide too. Also check the right side buildings, these are still leaning to the right. Regarding the road, the stones seem stretched and maybe a touch too big, though probably on the right lines with the pattern, however i’d expect to see some kind of variation to the path, just to break them up slightly. The ratio is too wide, deduct from the right and give more height.

Again, same with Joat, concentrate on blocking in the bigger composition and worries about details later such as the background and sky.

I dont think the CG building will add any weight to the scene, especially given its position. If you want to add CG then make a few carriages parked up and dress the street with typical pariod elements.

Think about where lamps, trees etc might go too.

Thats pretty much everything so far :slight_smile: Take a look at joats for added comments that might help too.

Over all, focus on laying in the composition first then details later.

Dave.

#17

all the vertical seem to be straight on the right hand side, so I am a little confuse by which part of the building is leaning to the right. Is it ok if u just draw a vertical on the picture to show it off more clearly?

#18

i am really get sick off correcting perspective, so i done a 3d mock up with the composition I wanted. only takes 10mins to set up but it reveal a lot of perspective problems

#19

heh, I’m getting confused here, didnt realise this image was part of a challenge! :smiley:

yeah the 3d will give a much more accurate perspective. it’s also a good idea to add some line textures on the cube for lining up stuff like the balconys etc.

#20

I have a problem now.

I took the challenge as “Create photorealistic matte painting of old London city street using 2 base images and additional images when needed. Use Photoshop only.”

I took this also as a hardcore learning experience in photo mangling in Photoshop. Find suitable base material, correct the perspective, correct the colors, paint when needed. Use 3d only to add elements you can’t find othervice.

I found it incredibly hard and frustrating to try to match the perspective of base images too. But to me that was the point, actually. By doing something hard and keep doing it until you succeed is a hard way to learn, but a very efficient one too.

I took the challenge Everlite presented to MileDream as a challenge to produce a series of matte paintings using real life source material and do the work without shortcuts, focusing on the technical process of creating a photoreal matte.

I also took it with a mindset that Everlite is the art director in this and I am merely an executioner. My job was never to argue with the composition (long straight street extending to the focal point, the style of the houses, width of the street etc.) or to make any artistic decisions of my own. I tried as hard as I could to do what I’m expected to do at any given stage. The only time I have been flying solo was the beginning, until I got the first feedback.

I have toyed around with 3d some myself, and the tought of producing these buildings as crude cameramapped 3d models has indeed crossed my mind more than once. Heck, with the time I have already spent on this I could have made a bit less crude models of them. And with full texutres too.

It would be nice to hear Everlite’s take on this, since I’m still going to do as I’m told. Which is the priority, to produce photoreal matte painting using any means necessary or to produce a photoreal matte painting using non-3d methods?