Okay, I’m working on a set that is a dance studio, and one of my problems is the mirror. I need to dirty it up.
Basically, I need it to look like it’s been the reflective material has been tore up a bit and that it has some smudges on it.
What I’m hoping for is a bit of advice on how people approach this. So far I’ve successfully created a map for the reflective strength that works to tear up the reflection with chips and scratches… it’s just still too clean.
A few ways to approach this… I have no idea what the shaders are like in DAZ, so I can’t comment on that area, but the basics of texture mapping are the same in most applications.
Your diffuse (main color) map. Make a new one! Make it dirtier. Chances are if you’re raytracing with a mirror material, the diffuse is a flat, single color. UV map that mirror and go to town on it! This won’t affect the reflectivity channels.
Bump map. Keep it light and simple. Faint, faint. Filter it down if you can.
The overlay-geometry method: duplicate and separate the mirror’s face, offset it slightly away, and then use a new shader on this duplicate face(s) with a cutout opacity map. This can add depth to any texture, as it’s literally layering another texture on top. Of course you’ll need another bounce or two in your raytracing limits, too.
Thank you very much! It certainly gives me something to play with… was wondering if you’ve ever overlayed a box with a glass shader onto a mirror and what kind of effect that might have?
Well of course! That’s how a mirror works, right? (smiles)
Back in the olden days using Bryce, the only way to achieve realistic surface reflections (referred to often as “specularity”) was to do just that. Layers of geometry and various shaders. With a modern shading engine (mia_material_x for example, in Maya) you don’t have to do stuff like that, but it’s still a nice trick to getting things done sometimes.
Most mirrors have beveled edged glass with a reflective surface behind it, but that’s interior (bathroom) mirrors of course. Do whatever works best for your scene!
Thank you very, very much for your help. This is where I’m at with the mirror, a render I did just as I was posting that first post… The dirtyness is a sample from DVGarage and I think there are some limitations to the D|S4 render engine with regard to settings. Unfortunately the DAZ forums are down, so tech support isn’t forthcoming till Sunday at the earliest…
That said, I’m going to be playing a lot with what you’ve told me here. Again, thank you very much!
The project serves two purposes for me. One is to teach myself the ins and outs of getting a good render. The other is to ween myself off Rhino’s uberpoweful spline modeller and get into traditional polygon modelling which requires me to UNLEARN a lot!
Sometimes the technical aspects of CGI/3D aren’t as key as the conceptual ones. I would urge you to move away from DAZ as quickly as is feasible for you - no indirect lighting in a rendering engine is just a devastating drawback in 2012. Learn what you can from the concepts, but don’t get too bogged down in the details or foibles of DAZ Studio.
Pick up a demo of Modo or Max/Maya and give it a whirl when you get too stumped? It’ll blow your mind! And the career opportunities abound, too!
I’m fifty years old, homeless and I live behind a public library from where I go to work every day not making enough for a place to live, but at least they have WiFi here 24/7. I don’t live with my parents with unlimited time to dedicate to this, so I get by with what I can.
What would blow you away is what people can do without the expensive tools. I’m limited by economics and I won’t steal software, so I have what I have.
no indirect lighting in a rendering engine is just a devastating drawback in 2012.
You are making reference to a technical, rather than a conceptual aspect… Didn’t you tell me not to get lost in the Technical aspects?
I came here just to get an idea as to how to approach a particular challenge. I did not come here to get a sermon on how horrible it is that I use Hexagon for a modeller, DAZ Studio to render and not the elite stuff…
That said, your help has been invaluable! And I truly appreciate everything you’ve told me about how to approach the issue. Limitations are what they are, and I’ve since found out that I had my ray trace depth set too low on my render engine (had it set at 4, upped it to 6). It occurred to me when I couldn’t get a reflection beneath the transparent glass I put over the mirror…
All I’m doing with this project is teaching myself Polygon modelling and how to get a decent render with what I have Can’t afford more.
Don’t take my critique of DAZ stuff personally at all: I simply hope you excel, enjoy yourself, and potentially find work that will help you fulfill your goals and dreams! I grew up using Bryce and Ray Dream Studio, myself. Since answering you initially here I even went and downloaded the now-free Bryce 7, but alas, it wouldn’t install…
Do what you like! No insult intended. Make artwork. Have fun. Live it up!
Ouch! The DAZ forums are down ATM because of a massive upgrade… so tech support isn’t forthcoming for a couple of days. I never got into Bryce, found to not fit the way I think, so I eventually went with Vue instead. I’m sorry Bryce wouldn’t instal, a lot of people have a lot of fun with it…
Yep, I used it from 1998 to 2005 quite a bit. Bryce 3D (3.0) was my first 3D application! Vue also has some cool features, but is quite unstable for production usage. I’ve also made some nice artwork in that one though, despite the rendering woes!
Creativity will take any tools available and make something fun and pleasing. I’m no elitist or fanatic for any particular software - they’re all just different paint brushes at the end of the day!
In any event, one of the things I’d love to see some of the guys here do is grab the Genesis mesh and morph it into something cool and interesting. They’ve got this little thing called “Geografting” which allows a new mesh to be attached to the Genesis mesh as an integral part of it.
Those with ZBrush and other apps have done some very interesting things with it. With Geografting you can add arms or legs or heads… or whatever.
We’re hoping that with D|S4.5 we get some better animation tools. The FBX exporter allows the thing to go to any other high end platform.
Now, I know that you can do a whole lot more with Maya, 3DSmacks and Softymajjjj… but it seems to me that some very exciting things are happening on the low end right now. Eventually we might even get the kind of subsurface muscle functionality the high end has now. We FINALLY got Subdivision Surfaces with Genesis and D|S4… (that was a twelve year wait…)
BTW: my mirrors are looking one HECK of a lot better thanks to your help!
Sincerely, you won’t see anyone working with DAZ or Poser characters on the commercial end of things. It’s not just that they’re sub-par as far as modeling goes, or even rigging, but the tools in the main applications are much more flexible and geared towards asset-based usage when working on medium to large projects. Again, this opinion is not geared towards you or in any way a reflection of your desire to move forward on your own path. There’s really no need to compare DAZ or Poser to the main studio applications, as there is no comparison.
DAZ, Poser, Bryce, and Vue are all great programs for hobbyists and people just getting into the scene, of course! They certainly kicked off many a career. But when it comes to “work”, time is money, and it’s all about using the proper tools to get the job done when it’s a paid gig.
And that’s why you won’t see professional CG artists and devs using the programs so much… Bread on the table, wine in the glasses.
Clone wars isn’t exactly the greatest thing since sliced bread in CG, but it’s quite popular, and a lot of what they do could have been produced in either Poser or D|S. Not that it is, but it’s not the kind of stuff that couldn’t be.
Think of it this way: Maya, Max and Softimage are like the studio TV cameras to CG. Poser and D|S are like camcorders. Eventually someone’s going to produce something in one or the other that’s going to shock the industry. Don’t be surprised when that day comes. Transmapped hair, for instance, was developed in Poser. It was non-existent before then. Nobody thought of it. Is it not commonplace now as a way to save render time on background figures?
Transparency mapped hair was not introduced in Poser or DAZ. It’s been around since alpha channels and transparency, since the late 70s in concept and 80s in production. Cutout opacity is not something that Poser invented, my friend.
And how would you insert your Poser characters into a production scene such as on the Clone Wars cartoon? Would you import the scene into Poser and render it there? Would you export the Poser character to Maya and animate it there after reconstructing it almost from scratch to make it usable?
Anyway, I didn’t intend to argue with you about the validity of anything, good sir! I hope my tips on the mirror were helpful. Next time I’ll not say anything regarding application preference and just leave it at that - I had no intention of making you feel defensive, but consider that you’re acting affronted on behalf of free software. Why? It’s not personal at all. I think you should also, along the same lines, not feel insulted or affronted if you’re going to remove a screw from something and it requires a Phillip’s head screwdriver or hex driver, and all you have is a flat-head screwdriver. It’s not the screw’s fault, right?
How come nobody used it? I didn’t say cutout opacity didn’t exist. I’ve certainly not seen it used in that fashion prior to about 1997. Correct me if I’m wrong with an example or two… It became all the rage only after a guy from Japan named Kozaburo began doing it in Poser.
And how would you insert your Poser characters into a production scene such as on the Clone Wars cartoon?
No. You’d take the very simple meshes used in Clone Wars and rig them in Poser or DAZ… it’s not that hard. Poser characters, those that come with Poser are just meshes like those that are built by people on this forum. Poser does not have SDS yet, whereas D|S does.
Victoria, the figure you most often see rendered in Poser doesn’t come WITH Poser!
This isn’t about an arguement. I just believe you’re underestimating what’s on the low end. Yes it’s he low end. What’s on the high end, what happens here, eventually filters down. I see a lot of people re-inventing the wheel on a daily basis on this forum, and that’s great, because a lot of times it needs to happen.
So we have ten year old technology on the low end. It’s not like stuff wasn’t produced ten years ago.
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