Considering purchasing Vue xStream 7.0 (7.5)

#1

Greetings,
We are fairly long time Max users and are considering buying Vue xStreme 7.0

I am not trying to start a “my 3d app is better than yours” war but would like the opinions of Vue users here, and more specifically xStreme users.

We have tested Vue 5 and 6 in the past and had to dump them becasue they had problems.

The Ozone 4.0 Beta is pretty good too, but it also has “issues”. We really dislike “issues”.

There seems to be a theme in the posts I have read about Vue (and xStreme) about there being:

  1. Quite a few bugs
  2. Poor support
  3. Large price increases

To be fair, there are also many many examples of people creating fantastic work.

I would really like to hear from Vue users as to their satisfaction with the software and the company.

Best regards,
David

#2

there was some render issues w/7 using MR. Hopefully 7.5 will have fixed that. But you max guys will also be able to use Vray so that should help with speed, if they’ve implemented it properly.

Another option is Terragen 2 which someone created a Max plugin for camera data.

Hopefully they’ll have a 7.5 PLE/trial which will help you determine if you want to buy it or not.

#3

Thanks for your insight.

The last time we tested Vue the PLE lagged behind the release for quite some time.

You are correct that is the best way to evaluate it.

Does anyone know if Vue 7.5 has the same skies as Ozone 4.0 does?
Thanks,
David

#4

DDustin:

I was looking at your website and forensic samples and feel your sample ENVIRONMENTS could be greatly enhanced with VUE. Those sceens where the cars and truck collide could all be done in VUE exclusively(even the collision debris). Vue brings a level of realism to your projects that other software can’t.

#5

Obviously that is why we are looking at it, but if the software is bug prone I am not sure if I want the headache.
It’s like having an expensive sports car that only runs part of the time.

Are you an end user?
Thanks,

David

#6

We have been in contact with Eon regarding xStream 7.4 or 7.5.

Interestingly they are responsive with pre-sales questions.

7.4 is due out soon but the rep was not sure of the availability of a download for it.
7.5 will not be out till Q2 but I suspect there will be delays.

The rep assures me a lot of the major issues will be addressed in version 7.4.
That makes us nervous…

As far as using Vue alone for our crashes (as someone said we should) we need max to use our other plugins.
The rep also answered my question as to if Ozone is built in, and he says it is…

There is still the issue of render times.
Can anyone ellaborate on them?

Thanks,
David

#7

Hey Ddustin:

I am an enduser(VUE INFINITE). Love the software. I currently have a DELL XPS 420(8 gigs) and just bought the DELL XPS 435(24 gig, 64bit). Your render times will be a none issue. You will be satisfied. You will have no errors redoing what I see on your front page in VUE. That’s a straight forward job. The clip with that “missle” hitting the car is the only thing you would have to fool around with to get right.

#8

guardonduty,

Thanks for the reply.

Sorry I should have been more specific.
What are the Max/xStream render times?

Thanks,
David

#9

Dustin:

I use VUE Infinite. Since getting my machines, projects that would have taken 12 hrs now take 3 hrs and much less. I have four PCs, one laptop and access to as many more as I want. The advantage of having several machines is that you can render the same project with different Camera approaches all at the same time. One of them always looks best…the others you can video edit and pull bits and pieces from. IF you have one machine yess the render times “appear” long…having several ups your creativity.

#10

Guardonduty,
We have a full render farm made up of dual quad core Xeons running XP64.

Some of the render times being thrown around are 1 hour per frame.
Those are possibly exagerations, but we just dont want make any assumptions going in.

It is our main intention to run it from inside max (Vue xStream).

We have perfected our pipeline using Max and want Vue to be an extension/enhancement to our current methods.

BTW, there are a lot of animations we can not place on our site as we are prevented for legal reasons…

Thanks,
David

#11

Best time to buy a DELL is on Holidays. Sometimes you get both a Monitor and CPU for the same price as a CPU on non holidays.

#12

Goodnees gracious 1 hr a frame. What size are they rendering at. I rendered a project at 1024 by 640 at 900 DPI, Broadcast and it took only 8 mins. Get the new i7 Core Processor, DDR3 mem. Sweeeeet

#13

Hi David,

just be careful with the Vue 7 xStream purchase. I´ve purchased the upgrade last december (from Infinite 6 to xStream 7 with Max 2009). The e-on marketing said that rendering times are “up to 20% faster” and here at CGtalk there was a test that confirmed that one image took much less time to render in version 7 compared to version 6. My experience was the absolute opposite! I´ve rendered my own scene in Infinite 6 with 10 min a frame. I bought xStream 7 to improve render times but it turned out that xStream rendered MUCH SLOWER, meaning that the same image rendered in 1 hour, not 10 minutes. So this was a slow down and not a speed up. False marketing from e-on IMO!

Second thing to consider with Renderfarms. E-on does provide Hypervue and license for 5 render cows, but ONLY in standalone mode. If you want to use xStream in Max or any other host software, you will not be able to use the rendercows, but will have to by the license server ($500) plus a render node per CPU for each $150. In my case this would have been an additional $1000 investment for a software that is supposed to work “seamless” within 3Ds Max. IMO this is again a total rip off by e-on trying to milk money from their customers.

Third, the global illumination / final gather technology integrated with mental ray does not really work. Shadows are not rendered correctly and lighting is messed up. Integrating just trees in a max scene without the athmosphere will result in wrong colors. Nothing that can be fixed, but very tedious to be corrected by hand.

And still, even with version 7.21, the integration is not really working and xStream is crashing Max very often plus destroying scenes while saving.

Sorry if this is appears to be a rant, but I feel being ripped off. Please just understand this as a warning before spending a lot of money.

Lets hope that the announced free update to version 7.4 (“out soon”) will solve these issues, so we finally get what we paid for.

Other than these problems, Vue has by far the best technology for clouds, athmospheres, eco-systems, and solig growth plants. :wink:

Best,
Martin

#14

Martin,

Thanks for the detailed explaination.
Your render scenerio using the license server would be the model I would follow.
So for me it would be an approximate $2,800 outlay to set up my workstations and my farm.
I would spend that money if I felt it would work, but so far it seems I have to at least wait till 7.4 to see.

Another fellow I know in the UK uses Vue, but does not use it in max (xStream).
He likes it but he first creates his scenes in Max then exports to Vue. I really dont want to add another step.

While “milking money” may be a little strong, it does seem to indicate deeper issues.

Hopefully Vue monitors these forums and pays attention. Let’s just say that I don’t think they do either (not a slam, just doesnt seem likely).

The crashing and corrupting files concerns me greatly as well.
Thanks for your warnings. Based on your insight I will wait till 7.4 is released.
Could you be so kind as to drop me an IM or email with your findings when you get 7.4?
Any other Vue users feel free as well.

This is the power an individual consumer/customer has.
This approach doesnt seem to work with AutoDesk though… :slight_smile:

Best regards,
David

EDIT: I have been in contact with Vue and cited your problems to them. Let’s see if they respond…

#15

I wouldn’t worry, they dont even monitor their own forums.

Terragen 2 is looking better all the time.

Cheers

#16

Yes, thats the whole point of xStream versus Infinite. You could probably do the same with Infinite without spending the extra money.

Well yes, you might be right, it sounds strong. But if I look at their product policy and how they currently sell the maintanence program for $500, and with my past experiences, I fell that I´m really treated badly even as a pro customer.

Sure, will do once its out…

Could you please let me know what they respond ? My attempts to contact e-on were sadly often ignored although I was really offering constructive help.

Best,
Martin

#17

they do keep an eye on their own forums and in my opinion support is pretty responsive and friendly.

as for issues, yes, sadly some more or less annoying things are still there and i do agree that price increases as of lately in vue land have been steep, but one realy cant say that e.ons support isnt friendly and responsive, in my experience they listen and react to more or less every single issue i´ve ever brought forward and in the end fix virtualy all of them aswell, which is over the years quite alot :slight_smile:

#18

Good to know you made this experience. I might have had bad luck.
Trying to email e-on three times with the offer to help beta-testing
resulted in no response. I would have at least thought that responding
and saying they are not interested is possible, but nothing happened.
Then the disappointments with the software (bugs and render times)
plus the new price policy really turned me off. Lets see, hopefully they
get it right with the next update and think about a reasonable upgrade
price for the 7.5 update to Vue 7 xStream users.

#19

have to agree that a reply saying “thanks but no thanks” in response to your beta testing request would have been nice.

and yeah, 7.5 do have a hefty pricetag even when upgrading from 7.0, granted camera mapping and cloud alphas, spheric scenes and perhaps more then anything, material/terrain editor painting and some of the other improvements sounds very promising.

In the end tho, people can of course skip 7.5 and considering the timeframe between 7.0 and 7.5 i´m asuming even vue 8 will be out before the final t2 version ships :slight_smile:

#20

Martin,
All he said was that he would pass the information on.
This was done in the email responce utility they have on their site.

Mike is the only person I have read about that says they (e-on) are responsive.

Some of the other forums really rip on them.

All that leads me to believe there has to be a good portion of truth in all the posts.
Lots and Lots of disgruntled users that feel the same as you.

I have offered to Beta test their Ozone 4.0 beta release as well and there has been no response. Ozone is pretty buggy too.

It is not right for users to have to buy upgrades to fix their problems, or even have to hope for releases that will fix their problems.

Vue looks great, but I have to listen to the masses that are saying to stay away.
A good deal of that is related to pricing. In my opinion, pricing is not a huge factor. I just want it to work reliably and consistantly.

Let’s hope 7.4 lives up to half of the claims and part of the expectations.

As end users that only real recourse we have is to use our pocketbooks.
I also find it odd there has not been some type of class action law suit brought against them or, that they have not been bought up by AD :slight_smile:

David