Color Theory (beginning artist) saturation

#1

Hey I was wondering if anyone would be able to share their knowlege of color saturation. I understand what it is and how it works. What I am looking for is really just when to use it; for example, something that is closer to the viewer may be more saturated something further away less saturated because of atmospheric perspective. What else??

I would like to make a list of things and just sort of keep this thread as a library for future use.

Thanks everyone, Im looking foreward to your posts!

Update January 11. 2007 (I’m going to try to start listing and maybe later once we get more, catagorizing the specific examples that everyone is posting)
Library of examples:[u]

Foliage[/u]: For foliage, for instance, saturation often reaches its highest value around brightness values of 30% or 40%. At that point, the saturation may be very high–in the 90s, even. But the saturation levels off in the shadows and brighter areas, dipping to the 60s or 70s (or even the 50s for the darkest shadows).

General: In general, many objects are most saturated in their midtones.

Sky and Dirt: Sky and dirt are two notable, common exceptions I can think of off the top of my head. These pretty much just trace a steep, downward-sloping line in the Color Picker (i.e. they increase their saturation bit by bit as they get darker). Blue sky occupies a slanted zone near the top center of the picker; dirt tends to slope down along the left (desaturated) side. (DataMeister)

[color=Plum]Flesh: [/color]A good one for flesh is that when strong light bounces between two skin areas that are almost perpendicular to each other, the bounced light will get warmer and warmer as it picks up the skin tone with each bounce, ending up with a very saturated cadminium orange color (this is based on skin tone that’s fair to medium). (Lunatique)

[color=Wheat]Skyscrapers: [/color]First of all a cityscape scene with skyscrapers in it will have atmosphere 95% of the time since it is such a large scale thing. Therefore buildings pushed further into the background will be less saturated as will most distant object on a large scale. Dark side vs. Light side. There is a slight difference in saturation between the dark side of a skyscraper and its lightside during the day when slightly overcast. The dark side of the skyscraper will be slightly more saturated. (refer to my post for a little more information on effects of the time of day).

#2

Excellent question. I think a lot of beginning digital artists overlook this, or just experiment until they like what they see. I know I’ve still got to learn about it.

In general, many objects are most saturated in their midtones. The highlights and shadows are less saturated, creating a backwards C shape in the Color Picker if you were to trace out all the colors of that object. For foliage, for instance, saturation often reaches its highest value around brightness values of 30% or 40%. At that point, the saturation may be very high–in the 90s, even. But the saturation levels off in the shadows and brighter areas, dipping to the 60s or 70s (or even the 50s for the darkest shadows).

Sky and dirt are two notable, common exceptions I can think of off the top of my head. These pretty much just trace a steep, downward-sloping line in the Color Picker (i.e. they increase their saturation bit by bit as they get darker). Blue sky occupies a slanted zone near the top center of the picker; dirt tends to slope down along the left (desaturated) side.

There’s really only one area of the Color Picker that’s practically useless, and that’s the upper-right corner of the picking box. Colors that are very bright and very saturated are extremely rare in real life. Most of the time, the colors “cut the corner” and curve their way through a zone that’s a little darker and a little duller.

Now, this isn’t completely related to saturation, but it’s a good thing to keep in mind about color nevertheless: variety is good. I have a tendency to lay down all my shadow, midtone, and highlight colors and then just sample from the colors on the canvas. This is a nice, quick way to work, but the results are not as interesting as they could be. I find that my work looks better if I go into the Color Picker and tweak the current color a bit. Alter the hue a little, or increase the saturation a bit, or make it a little brighter, etc. Then I paint with that color, but not all over the object–just in a couple of areas. Do this again in a little while. This variety adds visual interest and increases realism if done properly.

One good way to pop up an object’s saturation and produce nice results is to paint on a new layer with its blending mode set to Color Dodge. If you use a few medium-dark, saturated colors, you’ll find that the paint beneath becomes lighter and more saturated in wonderful ways. Subtlety is key here. You don’t want to make it obvious that you’ve dodged the heck out of this thing. As soon as you’re done, merge the layer down. I especially like doing this for water. If you paint the water with relatively bluish colors and then use the Color Dodge technique with dark, saturated greens, the resulting colors are beautiful.

The best way to study saturation is to pick colors from photos and analyze the way saturation acts at various brightness values. You’ll learn a lot.

#3

A good one for flesh is that when strong light bounces between two skin areas that are almost perpendicular to each other, the bounced light will get warmer and warmer as it picks up the skin tone with each bounce, ending up with a very saturated cadminium orange color (this is based on skin tone that’s fair to medium).

#4

Thanks Datameister,

That was exactly what I was looking for. Its a good start and I will definately use this as reference in the future.

As Datameister stated before, the best way to learn about this is to take a photograph of what you are studying and go into some kind of photoeditting program and use the eyedropper. Examine the ways the saturation meter flucuates in relation to hue and value. In Datameister’s post I especially liked the information about foliage, dirt, and sky. This is what I am looking for: specific examples.

I will provide the post with one of my own discoveries:

Skyscapers - First of all a cityscape scene with skyscrapers in it will have atmosphere 95% of the time since it is such a large scale thing. Therefore buildings pushed further into the background will be less saturated as will most distant object on a large scale.

Dark side vs. Light side. There is a slight difference in saturation between the dark side of a skyscraper and its lightside during the day when slightly overcast. The dark side of the skyscraper will be slightly more saturated.

Building three (WTC) would either be a morning or dusk shot of the city since strong shadows are being cast. In this case the side of the building in shadow will be more saturated than the lighted side of the building. In the same conditions (morning or dusk high strong cast shadows) a shiny skyscraper as opposed to one with a more matte surface will be the reverse. The lighted side will be more saturated than the side in shadow.

These things are what I observed from studying various photographs in photoshop using the eyedropper tool. If anyone has anything to add about skyscrapers, effects of the angle of the sun on saturation, or just saturation in general please add more!

One last thing in response to what Datameister said about using the dodge tool; I want to say that he is absolutely right. It is very effective. If youre like me though and you normally use painter you may be wondering what the equivalent of the dodge tool is. I would really recommend using the glow brush in FX. It is useful for putting in highlights and reflections.

#5

http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm

Check this out, it’s color-ninjutsu.

#6

Yup, Color Dodge most closely equates to the Glow brush. It’s funny–whenever I use one of those, I find myself wishing it was was a little more like the other. They’re both great…but they’ve both got their disadvantages.

One nice thing about Color Dodge is the finesse that’s possible with it. If you with dark colors paint on a black layer set to Color Dodge, the effect produced is subtle but beautiful. That’s very difficult to do with the Glow brush because it applies color so quickly.

#7

Hmm Ive never had a problem with the glow brush applying paint too quickly. Just set the opacity down and start VERY dark. Choose the color you want and of course decide whether you want it saturated or not and go VERY dark. You can use the glow brush with great finese this way.

#8

[left]Understand that all ‘rules’ in regards to color are breakable or just plain mushy. Not because color is subjective (however stylistically that factors in as well) - but because color is dependant on many different variables.

Think of saturation as purity - when it is at it’s purest there is only one hue present. As you introduce and mix more hues or colored light the purity will go down basically akin to the interference you see on television. Now, the light itself isn’t dull - it still contains the same amount of each colored light, saturation is really more dependant on the object that is reflecting light.

So, really what you need to be asking yourself is what material (in relation to gloss vs matte) and color (what it reflects and absorbs) the object is as well as what color the light is or contains. Then rinse and repeat for secondary lights including reflected light - remember if you can see it, it is reflecting light.

Also, the sky changes color due to the position of the sun in the sky in relation to where you are looking in the sky - as well as time of day and time of year.
[/left]

#9

Could you give us an example of something that desaturates when more colors are introduced to it. I kind of understand what youre saying but im a little confused. Thanks!

#10

Sure, anything with a white local color :slight_smile:
But my point was instead based on calculating light, explaining why we see what we see. More of a theory sort of thing than something you will actually see.

Now, you will see things that appear to have a less saturated full-light than their half-light or even shadow. Besides overexposure in photography or even if your eyes haven’t adjusted (like coming out of a dark movie theatre) or subsurface scattering with flesh (ever held up a flashlight to your hand?) - I think the reason for this is either interference from the highlight, precense of secondary lighting or reflected lighting/radiosity, perhaps rather glossy surfaces and perhaps as well as surfaces that are partially transparent.

#11

Here’s one of the most comprehensive material on color theory I have ever seen:

http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/wcolor.html

It will take months for me to read through all of that material. Fortunately I have this printed on my desk at work so I can read it whenever I have idle time :).

-Ari

#12

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