Unexpected and welcome. Looking forward for it. Lots of enhancements to everyday workflow. Plus, is still a joy to work with.
I just want to ask Dave, the CEO to please allow everyone to use Cineversity. Covid is still affecting a lot of people, and staying indoors with Cineversity open will help many of us.
I like what’s being done with the node editor, but why not color code the assets type? you have to click on “Effectors” to discover it’s the purple group.
Some really good stuff here, and if you combine it with the features in S22, the year-on-year upgrade is looking pretty impressive.
If it wasn’t for the almost doubling of the cost of the perpetual licence upgrade this would probably be a no brainer.
The Good :
- Remesher included (maybe not as good as the paid exoside quad remesher, but Instant meshes was solid nonetheless)
- Mocap retargeting that works ! (Big deal for me) and animation improvements (pose library yeah!)
- Improved UV workflow.
- Improved viewport (not eevee or U-render yet, but improving slowly)
- Performance when using the scene nodes.
- A number of “quality of life” improvements
The Bad :
- Zero internal rendering improvements : ProRender 2 is out for a year and we’re stuck with V1. I get that they want to push everyone to Redshift, but since it’s another paid product, C4D should have at least a decent alternative, or just include Redshift as the baseline renderer and only sell extra nodes.
The level of complexity to create simple stuff with a scene node is frightening… creating a blue sphere with UVs takes 10 times as long as before. Just like with materials, I hope they find a way to create a quick and easy system so that it’s transparent to the users.
Nothing really on the dynamics/particles/simulations front yet. I guess it’s dependent on the new scene node…
My reseller offered me a 20% discount to trade my perpetual R21 license to a subscription. That’s a 120 euros coupon to forgo a 3450 euros license. That’s ludicrous. If I just wait 2.5 months and get a full new subscription, I’d get to keep my perpetual license AND get a second new one for the same price year-on-year.
So despite all the goodies, given the current economic situation and upgrade policy, I’m just going to wait and sit on this one for now.
Overall a solid upgrade I would say. I mostly agree with Eric:
- UVs look good
- Char and animation stuff looks good
- Interoperability updates look good
- Remesher is cool, but it is “just” the integration of an open source algorithm (though I think the original license does not apply here and they might have to pay fees)
- Scene nodes looks great, but it is just a demo, not production ready. It is great they offering a glimpse of what’s to come (finaly), but it is not really a feature of R23. And I fear it won’t even be completed in R24, but I hope I am wrong
But what kind of shocks me (although I almost expected it): Still no option for hobby or semi-professional users. Everyone has an Indie version now, but what does Maxon: adds an even more expensive subscription (Maxon One). No option below 720€ per year. I am not sure this is the best way to attract new users or keep the ones that don’t just make a lot of money with Cinema 4D (and yes, I also got the 20% offer which is still far above what Prime MSA used to cost me). Ok, I guess I have to kind of get over this self-pitty-BS and move on.
I’d forgotten about ProRender. Now Octane supports macOS/Metal (very impressed with it so far and it’s only a v.1) – with Redshift shortly to follow – surely they should just deprecate it. Leaving it at v.1 shows a real lack of respect for AMD’s efforts and C4D owners. I find it utterly unusable in its current (and presumably permanent) state – it’s a bit of an embarrassment, frankly.
However, there’s a lot of goodness in R23 and it’s time for me to move on from R21.
My MSA is still valid until the end of September. I assume I get R23 in my downloads? So I wait with a subscription until R25 arrives (after S23).
And yes. Disappointed about Prorender. I subscribed to Octane X aswell and am very impressed too. Since I don’t have S22 I am curious to see how my metal-supported OSX viewport will behave in R23.
Prorender Information on R23
Well that’s a bummer. I bought an EGPU specifically for Pro Render in C4D. It was never that stable but I was hoping for an update to remedy this. Looks like I’m moving to Octane.
Ok, so they did change something in rendering…
This is a really weird move after this was one of the big paid-for-features (in R19 touted as Tomorrow’s Technology https://www.maxon.net/en-us/sites/new-in-release-19/overview/), and it doesn’t create a lot of trust to be honest. But since the integration was never really good this would be a great opportunity to offer the new AMD plugin for all API-compatible versions, not subscription locked.
…and it looks like we paid for ‘Screen Space Reflections’ back at R19 too…
Yeah, It was also unclear to me what is the difference here…
Did you just copy my “Tomorrow’s Technology” rant over at C4DCafe?
Yes - sorry - should I have asked? My apologies if so. I’m not terribly happy on the Maxon front this morning.
No, I will send you the bill (no subscription )
Ah, so ProRender is in the hands of AMD now. Interesting. Still don’t see how it can compete against Octane (if you’re on the cusp, rent it for a month. I’ve found it transformational for making amazing images, and I only have a pair of RX 7500XTs – nothing special.)
Yesterday I opened up a 1.8 million-poly SpeedTree mesh, had 100 instances of it, plus volumetric fog, and still navigated around the scene quite happily. And the end results, using Octane’s daylight system, were just gorgeous. As long as you don’t go overboard on un-instanced geo or huge texture files (I’m limited to 8GB VRAM), it’s a mostly painless experience. I can only image what it’s like on a PC with Nvidia’s latest monster cards.
You know what it’s like when you get ‘good news’ - you just can’t wait to let everyone know…
Communication is really a probelm with Maxon I would say. I mean, how could you not address the removal of a feature that was once described as the future? I can understand that it would not be in the feature videos, but it could have been mentioned in that first IBC session at least. This just leaves a bad tatse and makes you wonder which other new exciting future technologies will bite the dust before they are finished. Damn, I love C4D, but the company makes it hard to stay a believer.
Okay, I try to be more constructive. So has anyone an idea, if/where the difference between the old and the new screen space reflections is?
S22 is a Shitshow, so many bugs, not useable in production, every bug I submitted was confirmed … and not yet fixed … in 22.123 —
I suspect nothing from S23 this will continoue a few more months …
I would suggest keeping R21 till people report S25 is stable
no propper (C4D way) redshift integration is also a bummer…
So actually on the web site it says improved screen space reflections. It’s just in some videos that it appears as if this was something new. But here I would wish they would just be more clear what exactly was improved. This is similar to R20 where they teased that you could now do bevel shaders or similar with the nodes, but you never found an explanation how to that. Again, communication.