Chaos Group takes over development of VrayforC4D


#21

Pray tell, what free, high end software package do you mean? Actually, I do not see a single free renderer for C4D at the moment, except for the ones that are included in the package. Cycles may be derived from the Blender renderer, but the C4D version is not free either (although definitely more affordable than the current VRay plans).

I hope you don’t mean we should all trundle off to Blender because we darn hobbyists are no longer wanted in the C4D environment? (After paying full prices for many, many years.)

(And even with Blender… that is one package, not so many)


#22

Ah yes. I did like their hair work on Big Buck Bunny already. I’ll definitely get a demo next week to check out how it works in combination with the C4D hair definitions.


#23

That is true and needs to be taken into account while calculating for or against a renderer. For (mainly) still rendering a single workstation may indeed be enough.

I do wonder whether that is the case for animations, though. I’d like to have three independent computers for animation: one to render long-duration jobs (e.g. final renders), one to queue medium jobs (stuff I want to see soon but which take too long for a coffee break), and one workstation to work on. This way, a crash of the workstation (which may happen e.g. in testing or developing of plugins) will not bother the ongoing renders, and ongoing renders will not slow down interactive work.

Naturally the situation may feel different with GPU rendering (as VRay user I only know CPU rendering so far); if you have multiple graphics cards you may work on one and render on the rest, which may be less intrusive for the interactive system (crashs would still be an issue though).

Three needed licenses would push Redshift in the range where VRay is as well. Provided that is the way one would want to go.

How’s the fur in Redshift btw?


#24

I guess I was referring to the general 3D market at large. So yes, blender being part of that. They’ve seen notable improvements in the past couple years, and now have a viewport that’s almost a final frame render; or Houdini Indie - for $200/year we can get one of the most advanced 3D packages in the world, plus three render nodes, and the best devs in the industry. It continues to get easier to use, with the free MOPs toolset by some of the Aixsponza guys integrating Mograph tools that are directly inspired by C4D.

While not renderers, we could also mention other software packages that are important parts of the pipeline, and contribute to the overall cost of work - substance painter/designer & Quixel offer tremendous indie packages for painting/texturing, Fusion’s advanced compositing is free, and Da Vinci’s editor/color correction is free as well.

I too get very frustrated when companies decide to price out many of their longtime customers; I’m there right now in another part of life, but if its a moderate sized company in a competitive field taking an under-priced and under-featured software package and increasing costs to an industry standard level so they can improve it - its more understandable.

If they or Maxon were to increase their prices to a level that I can’t afford, then I’m fully committed to sticking with the software I already have while learning these other less expensive packages so that I can use them for day to day work.


#25

Well, if Houdini had been available at that price earlier (I remember it being twice as expensive as C4D) or Blender had been available earlier, I might not be dedicated to C4D so much nowadays. But history being what it is, I have been working for much more than a decade with C4D now, invested a lot of time and money in extras, and throwing everything overboard would be rather difficult.

(Naturally Maxon cannot significantly increase prices any further, as it is already in the highest price segment for the current market, but they could still change to a rental model which I would not appreciate, to say the least. – Considering the price segment one would like to think C4D came with a more competitive GI renderer anyway.)

Sadly, VRays price model change comes at the most inopportune time for me, when I just spent a good chunk of time in VRay fur setups and was about to begin a larger project with it. Maybe it’s the Force telling me I’d be better off with Cycles anyway for effects rendering, but right now, this joyful announcement comes over only as a nuisance (as much as professionals will appreciate it, but they can offset the cost towards their customers).


#26

redshift renders c4d hair natively as it is. looks really good and renders fast.


#27

As a update to my post here where I needed clarification on some thinigs, I found that clarification and it was as I thought so in case anyone else was wondering here it is.

If your on Vray 3.6 you can get a key for use in r20. Regardless if you migrate to Chaos Group or not your licence still remains perpetual but stuck at the version you have, and will no longer get any support for future upgrades.

Your licence will not work in r21 onwards so you either keep going back to rendering in older versions of C4D or not ever upgrade C4D again to retain compatibility and workflow.

Mirgration I would say is not the correct term to use as your licence is not going anywhere, but to move forward with new tech for Vray its rental only. To receive the same nodes and workstation licence using the rental scheme will cost a arm and a leg, so for someone with 10 render nodes with vat which is not shown on the price is something like £1456 uk pounds per year keeping in mind you actually own nothing at the end of that year. Its not for the hobbyist, its for the professional whom makes back his.her money from using it.

Im not sure if one workstation rental includes its own node for that workstation, if that be the case then its £348 in vat uk pounds. This would mean that if you have invested in a small home render farm your not get any use for it without paying for each node, the cloud would then be the option for animation.

Studios, small and large, high income freelancers can choose to go along with this as it pays for itself, but its still significantly more expensive than what we had.

The migration is essentially offering you a free year of rental for the same feature set of 3.6 only they are calling it 3.7. Any updates added features in that year will be gone as soon as your free migration has ended unless you could afford to rent it. Personalty I dont like getting used to having something I dont own or cant afford to keep unless in that time frame it could earn me money, or you could come to terms and except that what you get used to will be gone and your revert back to using your perpetual version in a version of C4D that is not up to date in which by then it would be into r21, your be going back to r20 or earlier.

Alternatives? Yes there are but non apart from Arnold has both high end hair and skin materials in the same render engine. Vray has many options for decent skin and the ALsurface is so easy to use with great realistic results. Looking at alternatives for skin set up looks painful watching them being set up in comparison, and the results are far from pleasing.

Another spanner in the works for me is Ornatrix, such a nice hair system in development and now I fear I wont be purchasing that due to not getting the support needed for my current version of Vray, we will have to see how that one pans out, but I would have thought work needs to be done both in Vray and Ornatrix.

All in all its very bad news for me, and very good news for the advancement of Vray4C4D and those whom can afford it. As we cant do anything about it, I guess we should feel lucky that if we happen to have a licence at version 3.6 and its working stable for us, we have a perpetual licence that nobody will ever have again unless Chaos group see that there is money to be made from adding other options such as a perpetual licence, yearly maintenance, or rent to own.

Dan


#28

I see where you are coming from. I’ve shifted my thought process from having several render nodes, to having one multiple GPU workstation, and eventually adding a dedicated single render node with multiple GPUs.

I have not run into any issues with fur/hair in Redshift. It even uses C4Ds hair attributes for kink/frizz/bend/curl , etc. even though it uses its own material. So really, you use the native C4D Hair material (to define all those attributes) then stack a redshift hair material on it for the texturing.


#29

$500 is the buy in price, maintenance is only $250 / year, that is very affordable.


#30

If you earn money with it, you can afford any of these renderers I guess (or must afford…)

It’s 250$ maintenance per node, too, so with 4 nodes (including the workstation), you’re at 1000$ again. I suppose the paradigm is to have only one machine and trick it out with as many graphic cards as possible so you save on license cost, but as said above I like to have more than one render station for organizational reasons and would run into the cost trap again.