C4D Customer Service has gotten weird

#1

I know this will probably descend into a rant thread and then into another Blender thread. haha I just really need to express my concern.

My MSA ran out just before the announcement for R21. Usually I blindly renew without much thought. Timing was bad for me and I just didn’t have the budget to pull the trigger, and with there being some “big announcement” about 3D for the Whole World, I thought I’d wait and see.

The announcement came. Though it wasn’t some earth shattering thing, and I wasn’t terribly happy about the subscription option, it would be my only option since I did not renew my MSA in time.

The pain of subscription was mildly smoothed over for me because I could get C4D for just around $60/per month. That’s about the same as we’ve always paid for the MSA, but now with the added benefit of just paying monthly! That would’ve been much more doable. I thought it was $60/month with a contract for 12 months. But no…it’s billed annually. That was some pretty sketchy marketing.

Anyway, fast forward to yesterday. I received a marketing email from Maxon saying:

Cinema 4D R21 Subscription Deals
If you’re interested in upgrading from an old licence or switching from perpetual to subscription, we’ve got some great deals on! (And yes, that’s how license was spelled)

I click on the link and it just dumps me to the Maxon contact page. No landing page explaining anything…just literally the contact page. OK, whatever, I’ll fill out the contact form. I wrote asking my options. That was 9:45 am yesterday.

I’ve not received any response whatsoever.

Am I expecting too much? I’ve been a customer of Maxon since version 6.1. There was a year or two that I did not renew, because I talked my employer(s) into buying it, and multiple seats usually.

I spread my love of this software through to multiple companies and other artists and designers that now use it.

I’m not sure what my C4D future looks like at this point. I guess I’ll keep waiting to see what is released and when I feel it is right, I’ll just jump on the subscription wagon.

Would be lovely if there was a 12 month grace period like redshift has. Your renewal date would stay the same, and you just lose out on the time you didn’t renew. Maxon would get the same amount of money either way, so what loss would it be in their part to let us renew our MSA? Probably because they are wanting to ditch perpetual altogether anyway, so why encourage that type of customer service?

Still love the software, with all it’s many quirks and shortcomings. I’ve filled most of the gaps with other software (Zbrush, 3DCoat, Substance, X-Particles, etc.)

Just wish there were better customer service.

#2

Considering Maxon is a German based company, licence is the British way of spelling it. Just saying.

#3

Fair enough - I didn’t realize that about the British spelling. It was just a silly point anyway. My overall commentary has more to do with the trending decline in customer service.

It is what it is.

#4

FYI regarding subscription based software, if you look at Adobe their stocks have trippled in the past 3 years since going subscription. If you were financially inclined you might find that investing stock in these companies (if you believe they could be successful) would be rather fruitful and could pay for the licence itself in returns on this stock (if you could find a cheap enough broker or vendor that allows you to bypass the brokerage cost by doing the transaction yourself).

#5

Adobe had a very unique market position. The notion that subscriptions is some magic bullet for robust corporate revenue is…simply bizarre.

I look at these things to evaluate future corporate revenue growth:
-Competition in it’s niche
-Product Quality
-Recent product trajectory
-Corporate leadership
-Worker satisfaction

In 4/5 areas…Maxon seems like a troubled company, IMO. But hey, just my opinion.

#6

So we’re coming to the close of day #2 since I emailed to ask about this special deal Maxon mentioned in their marketing email.

Still no response.

#7

@interactiveBoy

You have R20 forever but you also have the option to rent R2x monthly or yearly if there are features you need for a future job. I think you’re in a strong position as long as you keep your R20 system backed up. Using R20 and supplementing it with rentals could provide a more cost effective approach moving forward.

History is littered with good companies that go bad some manage to turn it around. I don’t get the slightest impression that the Maxon management thinks there’s a problem to be addressed.

Many of us have been happy to keep renewing our MSAs because we thought behind the scenes the Core rewrite was going great guns and years of waiting was going to pay off imminently. I think it is beginning to dawn on people that many of us have been guilty of building the core rewrite up to be something that it isn’t. To be completely fair Maxon never promised anything and it’s clear there’s not going to be a vastly better performing C4D anytime soon. It’s only when the lack of development causes people to drift away and there is a significant drop in profit will there be a change of approach. If people keep renewing their subs why should Maxon change? If you can get away with R21 level updates and still people throw money at you then where is the incentive to do better?

The greatest power the consumer has is to not spend their money this is the only thing large corporations listen to.

There are always other options…maybe even better options you haven’t tried yet…

#8

If you wrote in yesterday you probably didn’t hear back because we had our Company Christmas Party. Might need a day to recover. I am sure someone will respond soon. What country are you in? In general you can see on the shop page:

For upgrade pricing, floating licences or volume license purchases please contact your local Maxon representative.

We offer side grades from just about every previous version to Subscription, so the matrix is pretty big, which is why we have you contact us.

Cheers
Dave

#9

Ahh ok that makes sense. I’m in the US.

Guess I’ll just be a little more patient. :wink:

#10

@Infograph I’m definitely tracking what you’re saying.

Truth be told, I didn’t feel like R21 offered anything exciting or “must-have” for my workflow. I had some personal expenses that prevented me from renewing the MSA at the time, and I justified NOT doing it because of the new subscription plan. It’s the first time in years I felt like I didn’t HAVE to upgrade or renew because it’s all moving to subscription anyway, which buys me some time. I can just wait until there’s a must-have reason.

I’m realizing though that it’s a complex universe, having software from various vendors that has to work together.

I wanted to jump on DEM Earth soon, but to take advantage of the new version 4.xx I must have R21. Same with Redshift. I still use it in R20, and most of the features are there, but to take advantage of the nodal material spaces, I need to have R21.

It’s only a matter of time before plugins no longer support R20.

So in hind site, I’m seeing it was less about renewing or moving to subscription due to some desired feature, and more about maintaining compatibility not only with plugins, but with others that I do C4D work with and for.

I won’t make any more scene about this - that really wasn’t my intent. In the grand scheme of things it’s not a big deal.

I’m just afraid if I get in a tight situation again and have to cancel a subscription then that’s it and I lose access to my files, plugins, etc.

I do a lot of work, but only a small percentage of it is 3D. So it’s a tough pill to swallow, being held to a subscription.

Again I’ll say “it is what it is!”

Hopefully I’ll hear from them soon and see what my options are.

#11

interactiveBoy if you want to keep your r20 be carefull with any special deals offered. You might loose your R20 License and as you lost your R19 license with the upgrade to R20 you might loose the license for any perpetual license.
So get some % off for subscription for being R20 licenseholder (and loosing that) might be not that much of a good deal.

#12

Was Dave’s recent enigmatic tweet done at that Christmas party? I liked it.

#13

Nope the tweet was before the party :wink:

#14

Jops, the deals from R20 -> Subscription have no impact on r20 ownership.

#15

I totally understand where you’re coming from.

There are two of us who own the company and while I stopped the MSA a few releases ago my partner kept our second license up to date so we have R20.

It’s a relatively stressful business swapping software especially after such a very long time. McGavran will be banking on many thinking it’s easier just to swallow the unpalatable situation of Subscriptions than go elsewhere. I don’t blame anyone coming to that conclusion, work is stressful enough without adding to it.

One thing I wished I had done was to prepare for the eventuality that C4D went t*ts up. I wish I’d had an escape plan and had been learning a.n.other DCC to make the transition when necessary. I’d give anyone that advice for free.

The Fear of Losing Files is what makes the Subscription offer such an insidious proposition. Walk into it with your eyes open and make sure you export your models or animations as files that can be read from other software. No company should ever have the power to own your own IP because you either choose not to continue with Subs or more worryingly if you, for whatever reason, can no longer to afford your Subs. I refuse to give any company that domain over me or my company unless they’re paying me!

There will be many who think what’s all the fuss about Subs and not give a single f…

#16

That is very welcome news. I look forward to talking to someone at Maxon about my options!

#17

Last time we talked you told me, that “transition deals” will transition the perpetual license into a subscription and as it is a transition the perpetual is not valid afterwards. Was this just for R21 perpetual?

#18

Jops I do seem to remember that they were saying that it applied to R21. For those that did the MSA to get R21, they could get a deal on subscription by cashing in the perpetual and getting 2 years of sub for about the price of one year of MSA. Or something similar to that.

My situation is different, so I’m curious to know what my options will be.

And I wouldn’t feel comfortable doing something that would make me lose r20. At least I’ll always have that to fall back on should I need it.

#19

If you got R21 via MSA and want to transition that for an extra discount you can by handing in the perpetual. There are also discounts where you don’t transition. Of course if you were on MSA the last version you got was the one you own.
Cheers
Dave

#20

Thank you Dave for clarification. I am sorry to bring this up when ever I see that people unshure about discounts and subscription. I consider this to be a very serious thing because with perpetual updates (like it always was) you just hold a license for the last version. and when you loose this in a transition to subscription you have no perpetual left what so ever.

interactiveBoy I hope you get a good deal :slight_smile:

best regards
Jops