Body topology

#1441

ooo i love it…especially the soft facial features and the hair…great job!

#1442

Jeff Unay has put his 2004 hyperreal modeling masterclass online: download here.

He presents another view on topology, that is in some opposition to Steve’s ideas. So it might shake up things here a bit :slight_smile:

#1443

Wow!
very useful

thx a lot Laa-yosh!

#1444

So it might shake up things here a bit

Yeah, I know you think my way of doing it is bad, wrong, or both - badong… I saw that video last year, wasn’t very “shaken” by it. :slight_smile: Put 1 level of Smooth on my models, and it will look very close to what Jeff ends up with, in terms of topology.

BTW it’s a very cool video, Jeff’s a really talented artist, and he’s also good at explaining, and he goes through a lot of different things there.

#1445

steven, thank you so much… that refrences bodystyle is what im looking for!

#1446

No, no, no. You have a different opinion, a different method, and it works very well for you. So it can’t be bad or wrong… however, I haven’t changed my preference either :slight_smile:

I saw that video last year, wasn’t very “shaken” by it. :slight_smile:

Well, I thought all the people reading this topic would find it interesting to read about another approach. There’s been almost half a million views since you’ve started it!
Unfortunately it’s not the video, ‘just’ a PDF with lots of text.

Put 1 level of Smooth on my models, and it will look very close to what Jeff ends up with, in terms of topology.

Yes, but the difference is that if you actually model in the extra geometry, then you’ll be able to precisely control those extra vertices as well, throughout the pipeline.
For example, automatic unwrap tools are already working well in various packages, but it seems that they prefer the more organized geometry. And instead of manually setting up blendshapes, I’d use Michale Comet’s PoseDeformer - which is also eaier to work with if you have a little denser mesh and can use Artisian on it.

Then there’s a lot of useful info in that masterclass as well that’s not strictly related to topology…

#1447 
 Hey Laa-Yosh,

I’ve seen this video too and I think Steven is kind of right with his statement - Jeff approaches his models more like a traditional sculptor would. He often blocks out the geometry very roughly, smooths them and then uses Artisan to get the forms into shape. That’s why his models are so great - He doesn’t do “micro-tweaking”, he cares about forms first and about topology second. Also, he uses the smooth brush really often, so many of the “micro-tweaks” will diminish anyway. If Steven would smooth his models once and then refine them with Sculpting Tools, he’d get very similar results to Jeffs work.

I actually think that this is a very nice way to work out topology - You lay down the “general flow” and then use smoothing algorithms to get an all quad, nicely unified mesh (which in turn will be most helpful when it comes to texturing, rigging, stuff like that). I also think that it’s a nice way to retopologize models - I wouldn’t tweak vert per vert, if I can rely on smoothing algorithms while I’m still having control over virtually every vertex by using sculpting tools. I made a first retopologizing test lately (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=252357&highlight=retopologizing) and I’ve been quite happy with the results. Of course, the model isn’t perfect or whatever and has some spirals in it, but I still ended up with a nicely unified mesh with a relatively good flow.

Matter of taste, I guess.

#1448

thanks, your crits and suggestions are working out great for me, currently adjusting the upper half, above the breast to terminate better.

again, that ref you uploaded steven is very useful… I have many many refrences but none have the bodyshape that I was looking for. soo kudos.


#1449

kyroboy, that last update is a huge improvement. Amazing how a few changes in the curves can make that much difference. Looks great!

Alouette and Steven, thanks for the comments on my model a few pages back.

Laa-Yosh, thanks for that link. Lot of information there. The way I look at Steven’s approach:

A teacher gives you some guidelines on modeling including the sticking to quads guideline. He notes that these are guides and not rules and to remember the old saying that rules/guidelines are made to be broken.
After the student has done some modeling, and begins to understand some of the reasons for certain guidelines, then the teacher says “Okay, now let’s break some rules
(i.e. guidelines) and see what happens.”
As with any type of learning, once a student learns the fundamentals or the accepted way of doing things, then they are better equipped to look at approaches that go against the grain. For some, the different approach may create more problems than it solves. For others, it may push them forward to a better understanding of modeling.

On a totally different topic, Jeff’s tutorial also mentioned a tip that I think a lot of people overlook. He uses NURBS to draw out topology shapes and uses the curves as a guide for
editing the polygon model. Whenever I get stuck on a detailed area, I’ll draw the shape
with NURBS on a background layer and use that as a template for changing my
topology. Definitely useful tip.

Sorry for the rambling.

#1450

First, thanx to mr.Steven for the inputs. Since I don’t have time to make new head from zero (deadline hehehe), so I only tweak some of the vertices in my lo poly head (I hope, I will have a chance to create another soon). And add some characteristic to the face so she looks more evil.
And I already create a body, but I don’t know where or how to start, how to make da loops and so on :eek:
I only have tutorials from unreal tournaments (very lo poly models 4 games), since time is crucial, so I made de body like the tutorials plus my own adjustment.
I also need help in creating a beautiful eyes, how can I connect the eyeball with the eye socket nicely? Lofting from the edge of the socket doesn’t look right to me. And how can I animate the eye lids??
Any inputs would be very very useful 4 me in da future. Thx a lot guys :buttrock:
(sorry if I took lots of space hehehe)





#1451

more tweaking, still have alot more to do in the upper torso to.

think ill toss a deformer on her and get the more dynamic shape of the refrence.

ill keep updating thoughout the day so id appreciate the company here on the topology thread.

#1452

In my opinion, to keep the actual model as light as possible (while still retaining what you need for deformation) is preferable to a dense model from the beginning. It’s easier to rig, easier to create blend shape fixes, easier to do blendshape phonemes and expressions, and easier to animate (as there is better response from the rig) …and that with Zbrush, and displacement mapping… final detail, and even character variations are easily created on the same already rigged mesh.

It used to be that you needed that level of detail built in if you wanted to have that level of detail, but this is becoming less of an issue

You can always rez up the low rez model for use with a muscle system or other similar deformation rigging model.

I find that people who come from the Nurb Patch background prefer higher density meshes to low because it is what they are familiar with out of necesity with Nurbs. Sub-d or smoothing meshes on the other hand benefit from being lighter, once you get the hang of how the smoothing will work… how the topology will deform the base cage and what result from smoothing it.

#1453

Laa-Yosh, I forgot to thank you for the link. It’s nice to have the pdf.
As I said, Jeff is very talented and surely knows what he’s doing, he’s developed a workflow that works very well for what he does. But I think if I did it all his way I’d be a bit slower at modeling than I am… but of course there are things I can learn from him, we can all learn something from everyone. :slight_smile:

Kryoboy, that’s already looking so much better.
I think you should use a longer lens on your camera - Angle Of View smaller - so you can approach even closer to the shot of the reference… it will make it easier to see those last little differences. I’m mainly thinking of the feet showing at the wrong angle. It may help you to improve the ankles. The upper inner thigh still needs to ‘inflate’ a bit more, I think.

Darth, the eyes and eyelids look ok, but I see the nostrils might need some more definition, and the corners of the mouth has too much definition… it’s like the lips are raised there, there’s like an edge, it should be smoother. Also there are strange diagonal grooves on each side right next to where the nose joins the forehead, making the forehead bump out in the middle. Although she has a elf-like look to her, and if she’s not totally human then the forehead could be ok.
The topology can be improved, if you want to - there should be a fold running from the upper nostril curving down past the mouth-corner, to the chin - the smile wrinkle. Otherwise it’s actually not bad. :slight_smile:

#1454

alittle closer to refrence, adjusted the camera angle, its helping more.

still more little tweaking to do, getting the little things right take awhile… but closer to ball park here.

#1455

What sort of method do you guys go through when modeling your figures? Do you finish one area or even one muscle at a time?

I’ve been modeling some heads and a big breakthrough for me was to stop working the whole head at once and focus on a single feature. I’d finish the eyes, then the mouth, etc. Do any of you do something like this for full figures?

For example; say you’ve already got a head, then you could loop off the deltoid, then move down the arm, then back to the pecs, then trapezious, and on down the torso, etc.

It would really help me out if I could hear some of your oppinions, as I’m still kind of getting lost on the way to these great examples of topology in this thread.

#1456

Lachrymolonaut, I sort of take the opposite approach, starting with the general shapes and gradually moving toward the detail.


#1457

allenatl, yes I agree, that’s probably how most people do it.

Kryoboy, your best yet I think. I just still think the inner upper thigh (right next to the crotch) could go forward and inward still a little more, to obscure a bit more of the vulva, and also the inner calf can go backwards or outwards (or little of both) a tiny bit.

#1458

hey allen nice work hows it going long time no see wow…see your working on you model techinques even more nice

Kry very long time no see and i see lots of improvement love the typology on your model etc…How is that story with the gaint worm and stuff coming along

#1459

hmm sorry double post delete tab disappeared on me

#1460

more tweaks, and trys. at the front.