Body topology

#1421

Reimo005, first of all I don’t claim to be an expert, but I can still see some areas that needs working. There are some places where you can remove edges and replace tem with other edges. I have made a few “changes” to your “wire”. I am sure that you could make other changes. but I am trying to show you edgeloops.

The head below is mine and I’ve used that to show you how I am thinking about facial edge loops. I am trying to think of how the muscles move and what direction they have under the skin. I’m always using photo references, laughing/smiling people is a very good reference for faces I think.

I know that Stahlberg can give you much better advice than me though.

#1422

madart is basically right, you should study references a lot, and simply ‘test-sculpt’ your way to improvement. Comparing the finished smoothed surface to the reference. Nothing else matters. IMO you can get away with some triangles, and even more 5-sides, at least in Maya, but madart is suggesting some good changes for you there.

The rule of thumb is - for slightly curved surfaces (like most of the human body):
A triangle that is skinny WILL create a narrow bump or crease.
A triangle that is small, surrounded by larger quads, WILL create a more circular bump.
A quad that is small, surrounded by larger quads, WILL create a bump (circular or stretched, depending on its shape).
A 5-side surrounded by slightly smaller quads can become almost completely smooth, especially if you use the Average Vertice command. (So it’s a good way to end extra edge-loops.)

Now, if you want a bump, if you pick the right kind of polygon to make it, you can really keep the poly-count low. If you don’t want a bump in a particular place, now you know what to avoid.

But your biggest problems are the forms - the clavicles should reach from the sternum to the acromion (bony apex of the shoulder) for instance, much more horisontal than this. And the nostrils are a little strange, try to move in closer, with a good photo reference of a nostril, or a mirror, and focus on that exclusively for a while. The ear also may need some more work.
Overall though, you have a very good start there - cranium, neck, shoulders, basic shape is solid.

Allenatl and Alouette: both very good! :slight_smile:
Alouette, about hair, well that’s my nemesis, so far at least. I’ve tried geometry hair, Shave&Haircut, Maya Hair, PaintFX, Fur, Wildcat Toon render, and all of them leave something to be desired. I guess for me, geometry hair gives me the most control, even with it’s limitations in terms of realism and animation.

#1423

Glad to see all you old hags are still contributing to the thread… as it has grown to be a great active and educational experiance. This thread has more input and conversation over topology than anything I can find on the web to date.

Anyways onwards with the Crits.

Yes, I agree with berg, and madart. those loops he has drawn are very simular to my acutal topology I have posted below. This is my first time back to work on my own projects for quite some time… I think, and hope i am progressing more in facial construction is not best work:sad:. but I must keep pushing harder in this department to be a better artist.

madart, your proportions are great, this is going to be triagulated for game character ?
but very nice work anyways.

a few 5 & 3 sided polys, but placed well enough. I have yet to construct a face/head I myself am comfortable with yet. So please feel free to critizise!

#1424

More topology changes to work better and look better with transformations, and a new ear… i know stalhberg wasnt fond of my old ear… mabey this is better? i think so but who am I to crit. =D

Well im off to my grandfathers memorial servicess:sad:

thanks and keep up the work everyone.

#1425

I haven’t been home much, to reply.

Kryoboy, really nice head you have there and topology. But I thought the head was better before you made those changes.

The cheeks have moved further up along the sides of the nose / the sides of the nose are shorter/narrower(?) / cheeks have moved more towards the front. I thought it was better in the previous head.

I thought the temple area was better in the previous head. More definition.

I think I liked the ears better on the previous head as well. There’s more depth to them.

You have some lines going from the nose up towards the temple and head, would you care to explain why you have done it that way?

It’s so interesting to see how others are working and thinking. My head and body topology comes from studying other’s topology, studying photo references, images of muscles, looking in the mirror, looking at wrinkles, studying people etc etc.

And then there’s deformations… tweak, tweak, tweak… I’m still tweaking my male character, will soon have time to put some more work into him.

And talking about my male character, he has no name yet. I have made him as a base for a male character. I thought I would have a few bodies and body parts for both male and female characters. He’s a personal project at the moment. But my idea is that he could be used as game character. At the moment he still hasn’t got any clothes, will start working on that in week or so when I have time.

Is there a body for your character? I think that I have seen it somewhere in this thread, but there’s quite a lot of pages to go through.

PS I am sorry about your grandfather.

#1426

thanks, yes there is a body… it was posted before but im sure the link is dead by now, and i have done alittle work on it anyhow… so ill post it.

hmm, yes i like the way my cheaks look on my previous version better at a secound look… but hmm, for my deformation… Ill have another crack at it and try to preserve the previous look in cheeks around the nose area to the previous but still get the edges around the lower nose i need. should be simple enuff…

ill see what i can do with the new ear… it has better overall shape for me.

the head “mabey” a touch to small, and i think the eye holes are to big height wise.

breast maybe a touch to low also?

thanks for the crit mad. :thumbsup:

#1427

a really good body! Nice body shape!

I like the softness of the upper body, love the hands and feet (maybe a little too small? = feet).

There are a couple of things that I see though.

I also think the head is too small (I have a tendency to make too small heads as well).

If you look at the image you can see a few things that could be changed according to me. :slight_smile:

Looking at her from behind, I don’t think that there is enough space for her ribcage, she’s a little too concave, IMO.

There is a line going from her armpit down her upper arm, it doesn’t look quite right somehow. But I think that the armpit and upper chest area looks really good.

I don’t think that the breasts are too low.

I think that she is too wide between her upper thighs and lower torso. I’ve noticed on quite a few female characters modelled by men, that this area is quite wide. The thighs at the top very often meet or touch each other. Naturally it depends on how skinny/fat/well trained/realistic the character is supposed to be.

The legs look a little stiff to me and like they belong to a younger person.

I think you have a good body there!

#1428

thanks madart, nice oberservations.

Armpits are so darn tricky…

i have to agree with distance between the thighs IMO

and the ribcage, i believe someone else has told me that… so your probably right…

cant seem to find very good refrences to observe in this department, for the back ribcage.

thanks.

as for the head, i think im going to give it another go from scratch… I am having hell and a half with it.

#1429

Kryoboy, armpits are difficult, but I think you’ve got it real well. Proportions is what I think is so difficult to get right. I always measure and count heads and “halves” and I still can’t get it quite right.

For the ribcage references, if you search for female back, you’ll find a few good images. I always use fineart.sk and 3d.sk as well as swimwear and underwear sites for body references.

Sometimes it’s a really good idea to start afresh, especially if you’re stuck.

Hope that I will be able to see your progress.

The rule of thumb is - for slightly curved surfaces (like most of the human body):
A triangle that is skinny WILL create a narrow bump or crease.
A triangle that is small, surrounded by larger quads, WILL create a more circular bump.
A quad that is small, surrounded by larger quads, WILL create a bump (circular or stretched, depending on its shape).
A 5-side surrounded by slightly smaller quads can become almost completely smooth, especially if you use the Average Vertice command. (So it’s a good way to end extra edge-loops.)

Steven, I thought your tip here was very good!

#1430

aye, always room for improvement. and sometimes you just gotta start fresh.

here are some changes side by side with older version ive perked her up a touch, and major buttox improvment… it holds more shape and looks correct from all angles… before it had just the right angle of a crease now its actually a creast…
decreased the distance between the “place” between her legs. and increased the meat on her inner thigh.

i trashed he back alittle but its my next target to repair while i get this ribcage corrected.

and yes, those are good tips from stalhberg I use 5 and 3 sided polys more often than before, and not only has it increased my workspeeds but once your get the hang of its just plain and simply less of a headache.

#1431

Nice improvements! I may have a similar problem with my model’s crotch area… I think I’ll tweek that some.

I’ve been battling the head mesh topology for a while now… I think this is about the 5th or 6th approach. I still hadn’t created a bunch of expression morphs yet, so I’m not sure how it will hold up, but so far, I think it will work.

#1432

Kryoboy, much better! The crotch area and inner thighs look better I think. But I’m not so sure about the buttocks though. The bottom part of the buttocks look good, but I think that the top of the buttocks are usually more “together” (cheeks touching), there’s usually just a line/crease.

Looking forward to the progress!

Keith, That’s a really nice character. Looking very good! Noticed that she has nail varnish! :slight_smile: The crotch area could be a little narrower, just a little, IMO. One other thing that I noticed is that there are “lines” going from above her hips down to her crotch, that is common in men, but not in women.

I like her eyes and eye shader! But the nostrils look a little small. I like her face.

Kryoboy and Keith, I will have to finish my guy so that I can start working on my female character, I feel so inspired! :slight_smile:

As a woman I think female characters are so much easier to do than male characters. Do you agree? Or rather it would be the other way around for you.

#1433

Thanks for the comments! As for…

As a woman I think female characters are so much easier to do than male characters. Do you agree?

…I’ve spent a lot of years admiring the female form :wink: I wouldn’t know where to start, on a male character ;).

  • Keith
#1434

one advantage you have over us men is the live refrences we all wish we had at times.:smiley:

but most men love the female form.

#1435

one advantage you have over us men is the live refrences we all wish we had at times.:smiley:

…ain’t that the truth! Where do I sign up to get a shapely live model to hang around the house nekid? :wink:

#1436

The thing is, you don’t study and scrutinize(?) other people’s bodies the way you do your own body. I know the female body inside out, but I have noticed that I have tended to make male characters slightly female in shape sometimes, not fully understanding the shape of male muscles. I have noticed that some male modellers are making the “same kind” of mistakes modelling females as I do when I’m modelling males.

I’m thinking that somehow a modeller still knows his/her own body the best and sometimes takes for granted that the opposite sex looks the same in certain places.

Well this is all really thoughts on anatomy rather than topology. But it’s just something that I came to think about.

Or maybe it’s just me, spending too much time in front of the mirror… :smiley:

#1437

but anatomy=topology=anatomy, right? :smiley:

#1438

I think I was a little reckless in my wording, what I was thinking was that maybe my “thoughts”, rather would belong in an anatomy forum/thread rather than this topology thread.

#1439

Yeah I guess we’ve drifted a bit off the original topic, but I don’t mind too much. :slight_smile:

Kryoboy, here’s a comparison with a photo I found online that you might find useful, and some notes in red. Obviously the legs are elongated, but that’s ok as a stylistic choice. Her head is too small as you said yourself, and the lower legs should bend outward a bit more. I think what makes your legs look too young to Madart is that they are too straight and smooth, maybe curve them a bit more, like the reference. Also agree with Madart about the crotch etc, but you fixed that already.

body4se.jpg492x686

#1440

Hi every one and Stahlberg,
This is the longest thread that i ever read. I should post this long long time ago but just didn’t have anything to ask or show. finally i got something to show you guys, so hopefully i could get some of yours feedback about my model :slight_smile:



Cheer !
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