Please vote ONLY if you are a complete Blender Beginner or you used it only for about five minutes to get your first impression.
YES - You dislike the trackball orbiting stile and right click select and/or other stuff and you lost interest into blender because of it. Now it’s possible to change all the controls, but you still think some default controls should be changed.
NO - You don’t mind, you think it’s all fine.
Sorry, but I only posted here to get some attention from other software users that tried blender aswell. I don’t think they would look into the blender forum. :curious:
mind give it a rest would you, this is getting extreamly annoying just because you are not getting your own way dosn’t mean you have to plater your pathetic attempts at attention all over the place, when you do that us developers ignore you simple as that.
so please stop this its not going to get you anywhere, blender is made for blender users not new users not maya users. but BLENDER users you havn’t been using blender for all that long and you are telling us how to make it, now thats just wrong, get some experience first then you might be taken seriously
just because you are not getting your own way dosn’t mean you have to plater your pathetic attempts at attention all over the place
I use the default blender controls myself, except for trackball.
So I wouldn’t call it “For myself”.
I did not create the poll either.
Why did i post this poll here? That was not my idea:
broken:
"Do you think that the people who were turned away by config setups will be hanging out on this forum? I don't - looks like the results will be tainted from the start."
Paragon:
"@broken: hmmm, repost on CG Society? O.o"
FreeMind:
"http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthre...05#post6745805
Done."
blender is made for blender users not new users not maya users
New users are the future blender users. And there are way more incoming new users to blender then there are currently blender users. I have to disagree with you there. New users should have the same amount or even more attention then old users.
you havn’t been using blender for all that long and you are telling us how to make it
I have been using blender for about ~4 years now (dont even quite remember), mainly for modeling game characters and such… I’m not a begginer, neither am I an expert. “Get some experience” - done.
In all respect, Michael
When I started this default layout debate. My goal was not to “Satisfy myself”. It was “Improve Blenders Image and efficiency”
Similar to this guy here: http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=200675
And why are the responses to him positive, and the responses to me are negative?
Probably because my priorities for “blender Image” and “efficiency” is 50-50.
And his priority is “efficiency”.
I realize this is a old thread, but I as googling on the subject matter, seeing a poor ‘new user’ in #blender on freenode.net being thankful to GOD for a tutorial video he had found, that showed him he could change to ‘turntable’.
See here , and I shall remove his nick to protect his identity:
<UserX> OH GOD, some video tutorial posted how to change the view acting, Orbit Style, from trackball to Turntable, this is perfect!
THis user is a new user, as I verified by PM’ing him.
Then I stumble upon this thread , whereby a supposed important ‘team member’ of the blender community states emphatically that blender ‘new users’ aren’t what blender is made for. Hm, well isn’t that funny. Is that like learning to drive, where you aren’t told about how to CONTROL the car, just stuck behind the seat and innocently asked to go 55 mph down the highway, during rush hour
Yes, Michael, that is in essence what it is like, to be TOLD, by defaults that trackball, which IS much more confusing than turntable, is the norm. It is not , the norm Michael,no matter how much you, and blender developers wish to think otherwise.
I dont care how much you yell at me or stomp your feet, you shall not deviate me from this purpose , so just put that right out of your mind right now.
I speak up for the little guy, in as much as no one else but I and freemind seem to be willing to do it with any degree of stamina.
I do not want the innocent, the uninitiated to come to a wonderful 3d app, and be disoriented to the extent that when they find out they can rotate and not be disoriented that they use words like OH GOD.
I , like Freemind, am not doing this for any self glorification purposes as much as you may want to paint us in that light, but no,it as noted, is being done to protect the innocent from the unwavering forces of ‘change nothing as it removes our uniqueness among 3d apps’ mentality.
Nonsense.
It helps new users , and in fact , and as much as most hate this analogy, most expensive 3d aps, including maya and max all default to turntable. If people are willing to spend $3500+ for these applications, and if the parties involved in the creation of said apps use said defaults and they are able to continue selling said product, then why would anyone think said defaults are abnormal ?
When I learned to ride a bicycle as a youth, it was with training wheels, not a training gyroscope.
I suspect that is the reasoning behind many expensive, commercially used 3d apps and the default used for rotation
As noted on the new documentation wiki for blender:
" The Turntable style is fashioned more like a record player where you would have two axes of rotation available, and the world seems to have a better definition of what is Up and Down in it. The downside to using the Turntable style is that you lose some flexibility when working with your objects. However, you gain the sense of Up and Down which will be helpful when modeling an object that has an inherent up direction. "
Clear notation is made that turntable has a distinct benefit and it explains it. Up and down benefit. No mention is made whatsoever to the specific benefit of trackball, other than you gain flexibility. What flexibility do you gain, that turntable doesn’t provide ?
Blender has little to no bragging rights in commercial venues, so would it really hurt to accept some most used defaults ? Left click select is another odd duck missing here.
People will get used to changing things, but when they don’t even know its possible as relates to new users so often ( I was in that category , and hated track until I found out as well ) then as thoughtful users and developers , don’t we owe it to unsuspecting people to have defaults meant to make life easier in a 3d world ?
Isn’t life all about making things easier and more intuitive where we can ?
When 2.59 was released , I was hopeful that default might come in, but given that is not the case I felt the need to post this. THis may fall on deaf ears in a blender forum, but meh whatever, I felt it was worth a try. I may post it elsewhere too.
Didn’t expect to hear from you again, leebojammin… Thought you lost all hope.
whereby a supposed important ‘team member’ of the blender community states emphatically that blender ‘new users’ aren’t what blender is made for.
Well, that is surely an extremely counter intuitive marketing campaign...
Someone should watch Andrew Price presentation on issues (including marketing) in the conference.
[http://www.viddler.com/explore/andrewprice/videos/73/](http://www.viddler.com/explore/andrewprice/videos/73/)
I dont care how much you yell at me or stomp your feet, you shall not deviate me from this purpose , so just put that right out of your mind right now.
Reason cannot be defeated by bigotry.
I and freemind seem to be willing to do it with any degree of stamina.
I really thought you gave up :)
Actually, my personal view on the problem is:
This is not something I cry about or have as my life's goal to fix. I can live with it. Blender is still the best 3D anim software I ever used and I love it. Since I'm such a huge fan of blender and a perfectionist when it comes to software design, I like to point out Blenders design flaws and discuss about it. Trackball default is a very little flaw, but it exists and shouldn't be ignored. In my opinion, even the smallest issues, such as a wrong color used in GUI, or to long mouse distances, should be fixed. Cents make dollars, even the tinniest rough edges must be polished out to sum up into one amazing product. 'Out of the box'/default controls are more important then colors or mouse distance though. *Default* controls must be as good as they can possibly be, no doubt about it. Question is, what are good **default** controls? Those are:
1) Most intuitive. The controls that the user knows before even starting to use the software are the best for default. For example, Ctrl+C for copying, or Ctrl+N for New file. The only reason when such a well known control can be changed is only if that gives a huge benefit, but isn't to much different (Changing "Select all" to "A" is justified), but otherwise blender default controls have many flaws like these...
2) Logical. If you don't know a control, you should be able to guess it. The controls you could guess without looking at the manual are the best for default. Like if you know that "H" hides, then Alt-H unhides. That's simple reasoning. However, blender has logic flaws, badly grouped menus and such, like Edit mode being "Tab", while other modes flying around the keyboard in an unlogical manner...
3) Comfortable for an average user. If a control is found comfortable to most users, it is the best suitable to be default. Equally comfortable for both, a sculptor and a modeler. If the most perfect controls are completely contradictory for these kind of different uses, a compromise must be found. If there are only two options and no compromise, the control should be chosen by the amount of people in each group.
Note: Those three points do not contain anything that is based on opinion, no matter how much you think that all this discussion was going on just because we don't personally fancy trackball, they just really don't. Everything is statistics and logic.
Now, to sum all those up: "The controls that are least likely to be changed by the users".
Considering trackball, it obviously breaks Point 1 and Point 3. And what is even more obvious - the polls show that trackball is way more likely to be changed to turntable then left as is. That is - roughly 3 out of 4 people do the Preferences/Input/Turntable routine when they get a new version of blender.
It's unquestionable truth that Trackball (And left click select of course) is just a plain bad default, and everyone people that say "trackball should remain default" are GOING BY THEIR IRRATIONAL, UNSUPPORTED OPINION.
As I said many times before: I am going AGAINST right click select default as well, even if I AM USING IT myself. It's just a terrible default. Personally, I don't think there should even be an official switch for Left/Right select in the input preferences. Someone should write an add-on to switch them all if someone needs it. But I am very sure people will not give a damn about left click select after a while, just like no one ever ever ever gave a damn about left click select in Maya. So no more mouse "Select mouse" event. Just "Right" or "left" events. That's just silly.
When 2.59 was released , I was hopeful that default might come in
Very unlikely that they ever will.
As I said before - It's like a religion. All faith, no science.
P.S. I added "Default" between ** because I see people confuse "Good control" with "Good default control" a lot when arguing with me. "Good control" is all about personal opinion. "Good default control" is about statistics and logic. The only arguments I ever heard against my position were "But trackball is a better control", which is an opinion based position.
Cheers.
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