Biped , CAT and custom rigs.

#1

Hello there…

I am working with biped and character studio in max since a year.
After the release of 3ds max 2011, i am trying to move with CAT.
The problem is that i usually listen that custom rigs is way better than automated tools like biped and CAT.
I usually work with characters only, so i am not arguing about the use of custom riggs for non humanoids.
I wonder if this true or not?
-Why the rigs -although slower work flow- is way better?
-Can they work on the motion capture files ?
-Does they have a motion mixer like the one of character studio and can combine 2 different motion files to one rigg with different parts?? how about CAT?

Waiting for your comments
Regards…

#2

I’m assuming you’re asking about custom rigs, yes?

-Why the rigs -although slower work flow- is way better?
Custom rigs have the advantage of being specifically tailored to your needs and workflow. If you are happy with an off-the-shelf rig like CAT or Biped, this may not be as important. But most users find the off-the-shelf rigs limiting in a number of ways. With an off-the-shelf rig, you sacrifice some customization but you gain a number of tools that you would otherwise have to create for yourself.

E.g. Biped and CAT both have clip and pose management systems (including mirroring of poses), the ability to easily load mocap data, and quick auto-rigging set-ups. Getting those out of a custom rig is doable, but requires a lot more work. On the flip side, the off-the-shelf rigs also have a number of limitations or (particularly in the case of CAT) bugs.

-Can they work on the motion capture files ?
Yes, but I don’t know how easy it is to map mocap data to them. If you are also using motion builder, you should be able to map your mocap data to FBX format and then transfer it to a custom rig. I have not personally gone through that process, so I’m not sure exactly how simple or complex it is.

-Does they have a motion mixer like the one of character studio and can combine 2 different motion files to one rigg with different parts?? how about CAT?

CAT has a layer system that can in theory be used similarly to Biped’s Motion Mixer. But it is certainly not the same. With the layer system, you could sequentially blend from animation clip to animation clip, but you won’t get the same toolset that Character Studio offers. You should also be able to use animation layers–or simply loading in animation data sequentially on the same layer–to achieve similar goals with a custom rig. AFAIK, the CS Motion Mixer isn’t usable by non-Biped rigs.

#3

i know that debate about using which is growing heavily here in egypt but always ends for the sake of character studio not even CAT , for the mixer thing i remember that since max 8 there was demo for using max with custom rigs it is the counter part of trax in maya , i thin k that spacegroo spoke enough about the pros and cons of each system but i do disagree with that the custom rigs are of slow work flow , you can automate watever you want , you can establish even an animation system of your own , during my work times i watched the animators who stuck to CS only suffering from not able to do certain poses or even switch many links plus many other issues that turned CS into real wooden puppet that requires even much more effort to do smooth animation , for CAT i ididnt go through it so much in real production just exploring it it has some limitations by itself !
talk wouldnt end for that but you should determine first wat you really want to do and choose wat fits best for your needs

#4

Thanks guys for replying.

However I didn’t get from your replies if I can repeat walk cycl see easily or not with custom rig and whether I can reuse my walk cycles on my different models .
Also I haven’t understood well, why non-solidified (fluid smooth) animation is easier with custom rig than biped.

Regards

#5

I agree with Ahmed on his points also. The only point I’d clarify is that your workflow with a custom rig can be very fast–but that generally requires a decent amount of time to create a robust rig. So you may spend more time creating a custom rig at the start, but if you know what you’re doing, you’ll likely be able to optimize your workflow significantly to your needs.

Regarding cycling of animation and reusing animation clips on different models: those can be done using either Biped, CAT, or custom rigs. With CAT or a custom rig, you can use out-of-range types to quickly cycle curve data. Or you can append animation data (save out a CLP file in CAT or XAF file with a custom rig and then load it onto the end of an animation). Biped has its own methods.

And regarding achieving “fluid smooth” animation in biped vs other rigs, I think a lot of that depends on individual animators and their personal workflow preferences and the needs of the animation. Biped’s default animation mode uses quaternion rotation instead of Euler, so animators used to working with curves often find that difficult to work with. The quat vs Euler issue is one of the principal complaints from animators who have learned animation on more traditional rigs (though Biped does support Euler curves; last I used it, that feature was pretty flaky). And biped doesn’t have certain features of some other rigs, e.g. bendy arms or the ability to isolate the chest or head separately from the hips. Hence an animator working on a very cartoony character will likely find a Biped rig to be very limiting.

Many people find Biped to be a very serviceable rig for basic animation that doesn’t require lots of set-up, but it is by its nature very limited. The more extensive your needs, the more likely you’ll need to arrive at either a fully custom solution or possibly a CAT rig extended by custom scripts/controllers.

#6

Thank you both very much for detailed answer.

Question especially for Ahmed: How can i learn rigging and animation , without leaving cairo :slight_smile:

Thnx again

#7

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