Bad Art?

#1

when I watch Thrill movies about Vampires, ugly monsters, devils, especially those modeled using comuter 3d graphics, they just look sooooo ugly, long teeth, very wicked nails and fingers, disgusting bloody skin, etc… and don’t forget the very wicked movements, looks, and actions.

when I see that I just wonder what kind of mind who did these thing, I mean how far they go into evil in their imagination?!, I have some questions in mind

  • does it affect the artist if he keeps creating these creatures?
  • will he have more evil after years of dealing with this stuff?
  • does he have to have some evil before he creates evil?!:shrug:
  • we all know its just a movie, but for sure its affecting our children when they see these things, and I think very badly?
  • can we consider it as bad art? even though it needs alot of inspiration and imagination (wicked one), alot of very hard work on the computer, very tedious, not easy at all to make it convincing and real, so you need top quality modelers and animators.

I’m not talking about social issue (like how to protect our childern), not at all,
but, I’m talking about the art itself,

for me personally I can’t go to deep in imagining evil, even though I’m involved into art and have very wide imagination,

I hope my thoughts were clear and Not confusing and crazy, and want some thoughts from you guys as artists.

thanks

#2

simple: because you have been socially conditioned to associate “ugly” with evil (not all beautiful things are good, and not all ugly things are evil), and the difference between “ugly” and “beautiful” is also a social conditioning.

if a child was raised to see beauty in extraordinary creatures, then such creatures that are beautiful to that child will appear to be “ugly” to you. if you cannot imagine how “ugly” creatures can be beautiful, then your imagination is obviously limited. there is much beauty in the anatomy and structure of most creatures, real or fictional.

before i start to sound like a textbook, i’ll just stop here and say: i mostly create stuff in the horror genre, and i also happen to have a soft spot for puppies :stuck_out_tongue:

#3

Ah but who doesn’t? :smiley:

On this issue I’d say that everyone has an idea of what is ugly and what is beautiful and everyone has some deep rooted fear somewhere. If you can draw on what scares the heck out of you then you can pretty much create evil looking stuff :stuck_out_tongue:

#4

Well, I won’t comment on “bad art” and “good and evil”, since you are dealing here with lingual association that is very loose and absurd.

But, on the point of protecting our children, I would say we’d better protect them from believing what they can’t see as “good”, than seeing what you believe as “evil”

#5

I have had people think i was evil because of some of the things I draw , but I dont think they are evil at all , when you start playing around with new shapes etc with characters many people think that your making something evil or ugly. But in all honestly I have no evil thoughts at all , im a very pleasent person. It is fustrating that a lot of people I know think im crazy or disturbed because i draw so called demons all day.

But one thing that could be evil in my opinion is when someone drawing knives going throw skulls and people heads chopped off all day.(with out any purpose)

#6

thanks for attacking me deaderthanred

do you mean we have to let kids grow up with vampire movies, and teach them how to look at the beauty of the anatomy!!!,

I know what you mean about the beatuy of the anatomy, its not beauty, its creative, artistic, yes I agree.

but we only can understand that, and obviously kids will not understand, you can’t tell kids: look at this monster he’s so beautiful,

the ugly is ugly, and the beautiful is beatiful, and rarely you find demons and vampires doing good things, it won’t make any sense, so they are “evil”, so its just the artist enjoies going deep into evil.

this is something else ashakarc, after all people around the world have the same opinion about what is good and what is bad.

#7

Ahmattu, i’m sorry, it was not my intention… and if what i said sounded like an attack, then i apologize for not choosing the right words.

i was just saying what i say in jest - everybody has a different view when it comes to this subject, whatever i say is not valid when put into another person’s different view. i was thinking you would laugh at my exaggerated (exaggerated in jest) view, and tell me i’m being stupid heheh :smiley: put it this way: my own imagination- i will say it’s limited to whatever i have studied. one example: i cannot design vehicles to save my life lol

my outlook is very lighthearted on the subject of “art”, since “art” is something that can be debated with nobody having a “right” answer. what is “art” to somebody can be considered not art by someone else.

as for children, how about teach them that anything that cause harm to somebody is wrong and bad, and let them decide from there what is good and what is bad for themselves. most of the things in this world are more than what they seem on the outside :slight_smile:

#8

When I go watch a “vampire movie” that has been advertised as an evil horror movie I expect vampires to be ugly, evil, scary.

When I watch a “romantic comedy” I expect the leading lady to be… an ugly evil (w)itch…Just kidding! Maybe for the villain lady. But for the leading lady…beautiful, funny, and has a good set of teeth. :slight_smile:

I usually watch movies because they’re a form of entertainment and I don’t take them as an accurate reflection of reality (I can show you my fangs though) or a conspiracy by the filmmakers to seduce me into their own way of thinking and lifestylle (maybe with the exception of coming back for the sequel).

Good or bad art? Hmmm…Lemme just say I just watch what I want to watch and leave the theater or stop the video player if it fails to meet my expectations <cough>Blade III<cough>. Evil movie = evil artists/filmmakers? Not necessarily…they more than likely just want to work. Many filmmakers and movie crews don’t have a choice what projects they’re hired for. I recommend watching behind-the-scenes documentaries in DVD versions of some movies. They’ll show regular people just doing their own little roles as a part of a bigger studio or company like in other industries (but probably more creative).

The director might hold secret satanic rituals with his leading lady with good teeth in his trailer…but you’ll have to search for that clip in the “Director’s Cut” edition.

“Different strokes for different folks.” :thumbsup:

#9

Weird obnoxious creatures have always fascinated me. But I like to romaticize the thought of evil behaviour, though I’m not a big fan of the term because of it’s abstractness.

  1. I do think creatng such things will affect the personality of the artist, I wouldn’t say for the worse, but it would introduce beauty aspects other than what is common.

  2. I think dealing with this for a long time would probably broaden the artists accept for viewing and depicturing evil acts. But for an artist to act upon this in his/her real life would occur seldom, and I think the artist would have to be crazy from before.

  3. Personally, I’m not sure wether someone has to have an evil side, the people I know who would make such things usually have an interest for the morbid, but wouldn’t act in it in real life and are certainly not evil.

I saw a lot of movies like this when I was younger. Now while I haven’t done any evil acts, I do still enjoy the genre. Again in rare cases it might inspire violence, but probably with children who are already out of balance mentally.

  1. I see no reason to call it bad art. Art is not about making people happy, even though it can have that effect in some cases. But if you don’t like it, it could be bad to you. Everyone has their different aesthetic opinion.
#10

In answer to the original questions, my take:

  • Yes of course, do anything long enough and it’ll affect you one way or another
  • In society in general? Go and look at some eclesiastical art, there’s a great many images showing the depiction of evil in many forms (not just the gratuitous and ugly)… stored in Churches, Temples etc. The depiction invokes a reaction, the day that it doesn’t evoke a negative reaction will be the day that we’ve become so desensitised, so base and crass (or so misguided) as to not be able to tell right from wrong at all levels, from morality through to scientific and evolutionary ideals. i.e. the errosion of value.
  • Put it this way, everyone has nightmares now and then. Being frightened doesn’t make someone capable of frightening others directly themselves through their own actions, but they could frighten others by telling the story of the nightmare. Just as someone who is bullied isn’t always capable of bullying or inflicting the same thigns on others, but they sure as hell understand about bullying itself and what it’s like, and they could explain that to others.
  • Of course it affects children, it affects adults too. If it doesn’t affect you then you’re either completely desensitised (and it’s affected you) or the film totally lacks any level of empathy or immersion… in which case what’s the point in watching it?
  • You’re free to call whatever you want bad art, you don’t need to wait for a critic to tell you. However not everyone will agree with you. Then again personally I don’t consider that many films to be art at all, but it’s never stopped me enjoying them all the same.
#11

  • does it affect the artist if he keeps creating these creatures?
    No, I dont think so. Personally I’d never hurt anyone (mentally or physically) just for the sake of it, and I love making monsters (most of them doesnt get good enough to show around) and have done it since I can remember.

    • will he have more evil after years of dealing with this stuff?
      No

    • does he have to have some evil before he creates evil?!
      No, but he or she should understand what would be evil… like most people probably do

    • we all know its just a movie, but for sure its affecting our children when they see these things, and I think very badly?
      I think that depends on the child in question. They know they are evil, and they see the good one wins. Certanly, a lot of kids thinks evil is cool tough.

    • can we consider it as bad art?
      I would not. There can be repulsive good guys too, that kind of teatches you to not judge by looks. And I think our mind needs a break form ordinary things at times, and it would be dull if all creatures were good and “pretty” or “smooth”.

#12

Its ok deaderthanred, I’m enjoying this discussion with you guys.

as I know the art actually can be anything, its just like when go crazy with something and do it deeply to the extreme where few people can imagine going there,

the “art” can be one of three types (useful, neutral, harmful) to the humanity, lets take very obvious examples:

  • Sport, driving: useful

  • Dancing, singing: neutral

  • Theft, strip teasing: harmful (yes Theft can be an art).

so the artist should extremely feel all kind of details and more about something to come up with unusual things which is “art”, otherwise it’s not an art and it won’t impress others.

I used to watch action movies a lot, and still can’t stop myself of interacting with the actions, when the actors are fighting, my muscles goes on tension, and my teeth also, until the scene calms down, I don’t know I’m so sensitive (or crazy) , maybe because I deal with art :shrug:

so same thing happens when I watch hell movies (I do that very often), I feel I want to vomit, (thrusting nails into hearts, into eyes, blood everywhere, slimy spit, obnoxious faces)

I just think what kind of mind who did that, and why would we broaden our imagination with that?

I know at the end its all about money, and which films sell more, people like to see what scare them, but mostly without knowing what is good for them, so the directors just use this desire to sell these films, and force (in a way or another) the artist to follow this genre. and artists they just fall in love because it’s unusual (that’s the art), but not always good as I mentioned.

I have some misc points to add:

  • remember Alfred Hitchcock, was not that balanced person.
  • in US some violence video games really caused some children to do exactly like what they do in the game and killed two police officers.
  • it’s easy to make people cary (tragedy), it’s not easy to make them laugh (comedy)

Again I’m not solving a social issue, I’m talking about the art, I can’t decide yet, to call it bad art or not.

Sorry, I didn’t say that artist who work with this stuff are group of killers.

#13

[i]- does it affect the artist if he keeps creating these creatures?

  • will he have more evil after years of dealing with this stuff?

  • does he have to have some evil before he creates evil?!
    [/i]
    The artist is pretty much the same like an actor. A lot of actors play killers, villains, and monsters and there’s no evidence that one has to be like that in order to act as such or will become one after acting as evil character. It is simply the talent to act or depict evil.

    - we all know its just a movie, but for sure its affecting our children when they see these things, and I think very badly?

Children grow trough a period where they may not clearly distinguishing between reality, and imagination or imagery. Supervision and special care must be taken for them and this is a responsibility of the parents and supervisors and the society during this period

  [i]- can we consider it as bad art?[/i]

I wouldn’t use the term “bad art” for what you described. May be something like horror art, dark art, etc.
#14

Not exactly what I ment by that either. If one steals, one harms someone mentally If one slaps or punches… or pokes a little roughfly, one harms someone physically.
I’m sorry.

#15

Looks like one of our Prediction of Year 2006 is on the mark. Good Art/Bad Art thread is here.

Sorry to drop in like that. But I don’t think they are in any way a representation of the artis’s behavior; at most it might reflect their thoughts at that moment.

In my case, I never think of anything good or bad, including art. I am always amazed by the amount of detail an artist place into a work. I do not look any further than that. The reasons for such a work is no matter to me as it makes things more perspective than what it actually is and I don’t like that.

#16

I don’t know I’m so sensitive

I think you hit the nail on the head there. You’re more sensitive to - well it would seem pretty much everything - than most other people. Compare it to a food allergy; some people are hyper-sensitive to wheat germ or lactose, most are not. It’s not a good or bad thing in itself, unless you start judging everybody else for not being as sensitive as you are.

#17

hmmmm I’ll take that Stahlberg, but also I know other fellows how have the same feeling almost.

and it’s not similar to allergy stuff I think, there’s alot of evil in that in a way or another.

BTW, I didn’t judge anybody.
and I don’t want to make it so personal we are just discussing in general it’s not about me as you can read the whole thread.

thanks anyway

#18

I don’t think it’s good to feed these thoughts.

#19

BTW, I didn’t judge anybody, we are just discussing,

Well I understand what you mean, but I guess someone like for instance Hitchcock might think you were judging his work (some of it anyway) to be evil or something… :slight_smile:

#20

I think he’s dead now,… kiding :slight_smile: