7.0>Render speed & nice results

#1

I hope that we could get finally this new version working perfectly and, very important, with Renderama and Intel Slaves.
One of the main reasons to need Renderama is get benefit of all our computers. It seems obvious, but I said because now we can render with more or less quality GI images ( I would like to see some examples of architectural visualization using 7.0) but the trouble now is the speed. I mean, to get an image 6000x4000 of a no very complex scene, we need to divide in a lot of stripes and sometimes each strip could get an hour to render. Lot of time with no “VRAY results” talking about exteriors, for me impossible to get nice results in interiors.

I was testing the last months a lot (reading all about it, recommendations, etc) trying to find the equal proportion between quality and speed and, sincerely, I begin to lost the reasons to use EIU.

What´s your opinion about it ?

#2

For architectual renderings Vray seems to be the standard - I’ve seen some amazing work done with it. Quality and speed.

Take a look at this short thread - the quality and speed is nothing short of startling!
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=176&t=575780

I think EI probably can achieve spectacular results with it’s GI but it’s pretty much brute-force and will be slow. Add into that no mulit-processor support and it’s a klunky solution in comparison to using something like Vray - which has many 100’s, if not 1000’s of users making sure it works well in the architectural area.

To get EI to look like that image (that’s just the first one I found and not what I consider to be state-of-the-art) it requires much set-up and quality tweaks in lighting and materials - speed is needed to do these tweaks - if there is no speedy preview then quality will suffer.

Until EI can deliver very, very fast previews, you won’t see that sort of quality from EI in great quantity…it probably is capable but will require much experimentation from the user.

#3

I would consider adding additional software to my toolbox, if my current tools don´t allow me to get the results clients (or you) are looking for.

A while ago i just discovered that a famous Archviz EI user has completely switched to LW/Kray and if you see the Kray Gallery you can only imagine why. Absolutly amazing and very affordable, this Renderer (if you have a copy of LW around). I would IMHO contact him and ask for the pros and cons between EIAS and LW/KRay…

http://www.kraytracing.com/index.php?subpage=3&gal=1

Regards
Stefan

#4

“I would IMHO contact him and ask for the pros and cons between EIAS and LW/KRay…”
Please, it could be very interesting.
Really we´re using C4D+VRAYforC4D with great sucess in speed and pro quality.

I need reasons and exmples to continue, like the las 10 years, believing in this soft

#5

Check your PM please, i´ve submitted the Info.

Well, with C4D and Vray, you might not need to look any further?! :wink:

Regards
Stefan

#6

While the HDRI feature of v7 is good to have, I recently have to farm out a rendering job to a vray user because I am having problem using hdr maps in Renderama. w/o renderama, it would take a few hours on my main machine to do a hi-res render. So my 6 slaves are wasted and my deadline would not allow the long time to render and test render to get things right. And this is the 3rd time in a row that I have to use my vray guy to render a job.

Scene was a couple million polys of a WWII ship. While it would only take minutes to render in phong, that quality is kind of useless these days, especially considering the competition and expectation of clients.

And my vray guy gives me psd layer file that is 16bit depth, so I have lots and lots of room to tweak each pass before getting noise and artifacts. I think the EI layer shader is great, but outputting 8-bit images really limits the usefulness.

Hope 7.0.1 will address some of these problems, and they continue to refine/improve the GI engine before spending time on CA features. Otherwise what good will it do if the final render is not good enough?

-David

#7

Same opinion as Davis.
We´re “working hard”, NO “render fast” and nowadays, probably NO “retire young”

Were we want to go with EIU ?

It´s no the first time that people is asking for where we want to go, what we´re expecting for EIU ?

If I have to choose, I don´t want CA and modeler. I want the specific value, the diference value of EIU in the past : best image in minor time in the market.

No in this thread, but I propos to open a new list to know the way that users want and of course, what EITG thinks that we want or they are expecting to give us. May be are no the same point of view. I want to know if the aspects no important for me are delaying the development of I need it.

I insist, more far of initial examples, I would like to see works made with 7.0 in architectural visualization to see the future with enough energy to follow.

#8

Hi Juan, all,

We’re using Rama with Intel slaves here (mixing 12 Intels with 6 G5s) no problems at all here.

The Vray effect for interiors is of course, Photon mapping. We don’t have this yet in the EIAS, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t possible to get high quality interior renderings - the following two images were done for a job that we got specifically because a company that uses Vray couldn’t get the quality the client wanted (we saw their renders, a lot of the quality problem was down to anti-aliasing optimisation in Vray that was causing some really nasty edges). I’m sure Vray, of course, could produce the quality the client was after but it would probably have required more testing and tweaking that the 3D artists didn’t have time to do (see what I did there ;);).

And at the end of the day, if you or your clients aren’t happy with the level of quality your software can provide, then you have no choice but to buy new software…

Lets remember Vray alone is more expensive then EIAS (by a whopping $4 ;).

Best,
Ian

PS. I should point out that the images above are near finals (I don’t have the finished ones on my computer).

Edit: Render times (approx - this job was several months ago), top image: 3 hours at 8000px wide, bottom image 1 hour at 6000px wide.

#9

Hi Ian,

First of all, I don´t understand that Matt told me that now it´s impossible to get Intel Slaves with Renderama and that they are trying to fix asap. How could you do it?

Anyway, with all the respect that must have to you and for the rest of the users, I hahad used Electric during the last 10 years. I know the limitations of the app. The renders that you sent are in the limit of the quality that EIU couldd give us nowadays but, no for my clients, for me and the level that I need personally to give to my clients, are not enough. During tha last 8 years I thought that I would be better or worst using EIU, but I thought that I had the tool to get the best results in the market (speed, soft look quality and whatever you want. Today not. All of us, we´re seeing all the days a ton of images better what EIU can offer.
I don´t want to convice you of anything but, the reality of the market is what it is.
I want to know where we go with EIU. I could be patient, but joking " I want to retire young". I don´t want to wait for CA improvemnets for example. I want to know which are the focus idea of development at EITG. Then, if it´s clear, I´ll decide about it.

#10

Rama and Intel slaves = Perfect

Rama and OS X 10.5 = Broken (Fixed in 701 - coming very soon).

:slight_smile:
Ian

#11

Heh…good one!

#12

Here is what Matt said about Renderama on PC and hdr maps:

The .hdr type wasn’t registered properly in the PC version of Rama. This is fixed in 7.0.1

That is why I have not done any real projects w/ v7 HDR. Ordered a new 8-core, hope by the time it arrives, 7.0.1 is ready and I can finally do some work with HDR in v7.

#13

If I have to choose, I don´t want CA and modeler. I want the specific value, the diference value of EIU in the past : best image in minor time in the market.

That makes me sad.

EITG has been working hard on Rendering enhancements for the last several versions. They’ve given us Caustics, Subsurface Scattering, HDRI, and Multi-Pass output, all of which have been requested by users clamoring for the latest greatest rendering features.

Of course Maxwell has this feature or ‘look’ and VRay has ‘that’, but still the Electric Image Rendering System (EIRS) manages to keep up.

But what about Animation? What about Scaling Keyframes? What about snapping and aligning? What about instancing?

The Animation part of the EIAS has fallen dreadfully behind.

I don’t begrudge the Arch-Viz crowd (or the Industrial Design guys) getting their goodies, but hey, XSI Foundation is starting to look pretty good to me. I’ve just downloaded Houdini Apprentice and guess what? It’s power and depth is nothing short of amazing!

If the Arch-Viz crowd splits EIAS users by forcing the Animation folks to loose out, it will be sad.

You guys got your goodies, not to start any flame wars here, but I think you can be generous enough now, to let us get ours.

#14

I can´t agree more with plsyvjeucxfw. Us, the people that try to use the Animation part of Electric Image Animation System had waited and waited but the alternatives are growing fast out there. If I have to choose, I do want CA.
Thanks a lot.

FelixCat

#15

I don’t want to be it this or that, I wish EITG could give us all. I am getting my feet wet in the CA side of things. I want better CA tools, but at the same time I want better rendering capabilities. If I could easily make my renders to look like a Vray interior, that would be fantastic. But I also want better tools for my CA efforts.

#16

Well, this thread got back on track… for me at least.
Electric Image Doesnt need to waste it’s valuable/limited resources
on building a modeler.

It has to get up to speed for the rest of us who are painfully waiting for
animator to get back to being what it once was.
Arguably the best tool in the computer animation biz.

Let me summarize the future if things continue how they are going…
3 years from now, we’ll see the launch of modeler. it works pretty good, but
its still buggy. 2 more year, ok it’s working pretty good and the major updates to
our EIAS will be fixing bugs in modeler and updating the exisiting tools in Animator
and there will be no work done on animator for CA tools.

There are so many modelers that work well with EIAS right now, just as well, if not better
then how EIM worked with EIAS.
Why do we have to repeat history on this?

#17

I don’t see it at all like that, I completely disagree with you.

#18

I also disagree.
I greatly look forward to Modeler and think you’ll change your tune after it comes out.
They have the right man for the job and the right base to create something wonderful.

Jim Mulcahy

#19

Modeler, or whatever final name gets chosen, is a seperate application. It has it’s own budget, and it’s own development group (with perhaps some overlap). This has already been stated. Anyone worried that work on Modeler will cut into development of EIAS needs to remember this.

As far as EIAS goes, all I’m saying is that render features have been implemented for the last couple of versions. We are now on parity with other renderers (except perhaps for multi-threading, sub-poly displacement, etc., etc). Now is the time for Animation improvements.

That’s all. After years of waiting, it’s time to have the EITG team work on some Animation improvements. It is after all - the Electric Image Animation System.

As far as rendering Arch-Viz, how about this idea? A slightly cheaper version of EIAS where they’ve taken out the function curve editor, removed the cell fill tools, removed Xpressionist, removed the Dynamics engine, and just left in enough animation capability to render a walk through of a building, or shopping mall, or whatever.

How about an even cheaper version without any animation capability what so ever? Electric Image for Stills only. Product designers and Illustrators don’t even need to ever make more than a single frame, right?

We can push EIAS ever deeper into being a nitch product only used by boutique shops, instead of expanding it’s capabilities.

As others have shown, EIAS is perfectly capable right now, of working in the Arch-Viz arena. But as I understand it, the goal is to expand the user base and attract new users. This will strengthen the company and improve the software for EVERYONE.

Without Animation improvements including an Interface overhaul, Asset Management (with textures and file names), Texture Enhancements, Bone Rig and Spline I-K, and many, many others, EIAS will NOT be moving forward.

I personally would hate to see that happen.

#20

plsyvjeucxfw wrote:

As far as EIAS goes, all I’m saying is that render feature

No man, remember what you said :

“You guys got your goodies, not to start any flame wars here, but I think you can be generous enough now, to let us get ours.”

I think that you´re wrongg but I respect your opinion and the rest, but please take care with your comments. I had demostrate during years my support to the app.

Honesty, eachone could think what he wants but the other apps, the market are no waiting us to develope the tools that, today, are outhere. I can imagine the distance in 2 years.

What we want ? A medium app with a lot medium tools ?

I asked this because I need to know what´s the actual and future target group of EIU users. Then I´ll decide it. But, please, I´m talking and argumenting my pov, no starting any flame wars. Really sad for sure.