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#401

If you don’t mind me taking this conversation in another direction, I would like to discuss the career trajectory of an animator. I am interested in directing films, animated and live-action because live-action seems to be becoming more and more animated anyway. (Spiderman,Hulk,Van Helsing,Matrix,LOTR, etc., etc., etc.)

I am a current animation student (evening school) and I love animation for the opportunity it gives me to try out any and all camera shots I have in mind at a whim. I feel I learn a lot faster about shot-making inside the computer where I have no budget limitations than I could with real world dv or film. (You know no cranes, dollies, or tracks at my ready disposal…)

My Questions:

From the movement you see of people working in the industry, is starting out as an animator a good way to work up toward ultimately directing animated features and possibly live-action later on? Or would I be wiser to simply sharpen my skills as a storyboard/concept artist? Put another way, are there any animators who end up as film directors or is that the exception to the rule? Plus, is it a good training ground for directing or is it a bit too deep in the trenches to get a good overview of the big picture?

I’m working on a short film. If I decide to sign up for Animation Mentor and get in I’d probably take the year off and work on my short film while following the AM program. How much back and forth feedback with mentors will be allowed? Will you guys help me critique and guide the progress of my short film while I am doing the course?

#402

As an answer to your first question, I think it is very unlikely you’ll ultimately end up as a live action film director. But if you’re talented as a director, and take the opportunity to show that to the company you’re working for, they might let you direct a shortfilm. For example, boundin’ from pixar is directed by an animation guru that has worked on things like eg. sesame street for his whole life.

As for your second question, I think the answer will be positive. Since they say they want to get as close to their students as possible, I’m guessing they’ll give you tips on more then just their courses.

  • Bentagon
#403

Question:

Approximately how much time are you planning to have in between the announcements of official nitty gritty details of AnimationMentor, and the commencement of the first intake? For example, none of us know if we are even on the first “list” of applicants and we don’t know official start dates or costs. Once this information is released, how much time will we have to prepare before the course starts? If we are in the first group, but for some reason, (ie raising our own funds or work commitments etc) we aren’t able to participate with the classes at that time, are we then dropped back to the bottom of the list, or can we be guaranteed a place in the next intake?

#404

i’m pretty positive that nobody is IN right now…
(based on what was said earlier)
invitations will be sent out earlier to ALL who signed up for email notices in the fall

#405

I see for example (using IMDB) that Andrew Adamson, who directed Shrek(s) will be doing a live action feature next (the Lion, the Witch, & the Wardrobe) but looking at his list of credits before I see a lot of Visual Effects stuff. Does that mean he came out of VFX and got the Shrek job, or was he actually an animator? (a lot of these titles you read in someone’s credits like digital effects artist or visual effects lead artist or whatever don’t really tell much about what a person has actually done or what their specialty is - i mean is a guy a really good matte painter, or is he a compositing wiz, or fantastic at generating 3D dynamics simulations or what?)

I mean I can imagine making the leap quite easily from directing an animated feature to directing a live action feature, especially one that’s loaded with effects like he’ll be making and especially if the animated feature does as well as Shrek did, but are there any animators who actually end up directing an animated feature?

For guys like you - Bobby Beck, Shawn Kelly, and Carlos Baena, is you guys’ goal just to keep getting nicer and nicer animating jobs, bigger toys and fatter paychecks or is there some other longterm master plan at work? Would you like to eventually direct a film, or would you like to expand your skillset laterally? How many other skills have you been able to learn over the years such as compositing or other digital effects, modeling, or rendering if that strikes your fancy and how much support has your company offered for this? Has there been room for delving deeper into MEL (for example) or technical aspects of animating or is that something you’ve just had to squeeze in time for if it interests you?

I guess I’m just trying to get a picture of what an animation career might look like as I feel it’s a very important part of deciding to choose for an all-out exclusively animation program such as Animation Mentor.

#406

Actually, ILM is great for encouraging and supporting the pursuit of any of the other disciplines you mentioned. A lot of people here cross-train in other things, but for the most part everyone is a specialist. I’m pretty sure Pixar is the same way, but I can’t speak for them…

For me, my focus is 100% on animation and filmmaking in general, and I actually don’t have any real interest in learning any more about other aspects of CG. I love animation, and for me, that’s what I want to do, you know? I still have some of the interests I’ve always had, (such as directing or writing) and do still pursue those, but for the most part I don’t want to spend (to me: “waste”) any of my time on something that doesn’t apply to character animation. I’d rather spend my time in an acting class or something that will benefit me as an animator.

I’ve done a bit of modelling/texturing/rigging/etc at a previous job and escaping to a big studio where I can focus on growing as an animator is the best thing that ever happened to me career-wise! No lookin’ back!

I do realize some people like many different aspects of CG, and in answer to your question, yeah - the studios are filled with specialists but usually offer training programs if you want (or if they need you) to learn about other things… I can’t speak for other studios, but ILM’s training program rocks, and they’re always cross-training people in many different things.

Oh, and in answer to someone else’s question, you guys will know a lot more about AM, (schedules, syllabi, pricing, etc) well in advance of enrollment opening up…

shawn :wink:

#407

I love the whole thing.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

#408

Thanks for your answer. Must be creatively liberating to be able to animate and just animate…wow, a dream. And encouraging that ILM supports cross-training…

What have you seen as the mobility in an animators’ career from your eyes? Do animators ever get to direct films, (animated or live) or are the directors of the animated films coming from another discipline (like visual FX, or art department.) What do most of the animators aspire to longterm?

#409

Well, there are definitely animators who have proven themselves as directors, such as Brad Bird, Pete Docter, Tim Burton, etc., so it’s certainly possible… I think story people tend to move into directing more commonly than animators do, or from a visual effects standpoint camera-people (David Fincher was a camera guy at ILM back in the day) have made the leap, but I don’t think there’s any real “best way” to become a director. If directing is your dream, then I’d be spending every spare second at film classes and making my own films, you know?

I saw an interview with Kevin Smith over the weekend, and I think he was repeating something he had been told, but I thought it was awesome advice: “If you want to be a filmmaker, be a filmmaker.”

He meant to stop “wanting to become a filmmaker” and stop dreaming about someday being a filmmaker and just start making some films. I think the same exact thing applies to animation and most other aspects of CG as well… If anyone has the drive to work hard towards a goal, and the willingness to be open to learning and criticism, then any of these things, including directing a movie, is certainly attainable.

Totally just my opinion…

-shawn

#410

This is a extremely good point, Floyd. Experience and consumate expertise in a given field don’t necessarily make that person a good teacher. Teaching is a different skill.

Not to be negative - the AnimationMentor concept is clearly packed with positive aspects! But when I first read the interview Ali did with Shawn, Carlos and Bobby I wondered about the actual teachers. Will the mentors who provide the course content and write the syllabi receive perhaps some quick training on how to teach if they’ve never taught before? Will there be some sort of quality control at AnimationMentor to make sure the teacher-mentors actually teach and mentor well. Will the students be doing formal evaluations of theit teachers?

Sorry for all the questions - just curious

#411

I’d just like to thank Skelly6 and all AnimationMentor contributors who are taking the time to get on here and provide us with answers. Thanks guys!

And to show my appreciation, I shall bestow upon you… another question!

From what I understand, you have broken down the course of study into different levels. Will you place students into the level that you think is appropriate for them, based on their portfolios/previous experience, or will you let them decide for themselves what level to start at? I have some animation experience, but I’m looking to sharpen my skills and kick myself up a notch. How’s that gonna work?

#412

What happens to the industry when 1000 quality animators per year add to the already flooded job-seekers market? A world full of creative shelf-stackers?

#413

What happens?

Nothing , the same thing thats happening today. What is your argument exactly? That animation mentor is a risk to your job?

I would worry more about substandart schools turning out substandart students and flood the market.

#414

No argument, just something different.
The vast majority of Graduates don’t flood the market - they are stuck behind the tidal barrier with very little prospects…

#415

Actually AnimationMentor seem to be marketing this as a way for people - even ones who already have jobs - to improve and maximise their natural talents. They already said it’s not about churning through as many students as they can but giving really good quality mentoring.

We’ll see I guess…

PS: I’m guessing “no prospects” is kind of what “flooding the market” means Gingerhammer

#416

“PS: I’m guessing “no prospects” is kind of what “flooding the market” means Gingerhammer”

Yup. Had to re-think that one. I can’t even string a thought together coherantly so I’m off to bed!

#417

I think those who graduate and really have dedicated themselves to what they want to do, eventually find a niche somewhere some place. But only to those that have really busted their ass to do it.
I hear alot about this thing with too many people out in the market, and I think it’s not necessarily as bad as it is. I’m not singling anyone out, but the question comes down to dedication. Are you coming home from work and sitting down and trying to learn something new? Are you eating, breathing, and living animation? Or are you surfing these boards, watching TV, and saying “Eventually, I’ll get to it…”? Again, I’m not calling you out… But from what I’ve seen in the school I was attending, you found that there were a few who complained about the job market being overcrowded, but then they didn’t push themselves in their work. And of those who complained, a lot of their work was half-assed, you know? Then there were a few who just stayed quiet and busted their butts working. I’m sure those will get somewhere. Maybe it’s work ethic that I’m trying to get at. I dunno… I’m just a street cop that comes home after 10 hours and sits in front of a monitor and tries to figure out how to bring a character to life. :slight_smile:

On another note, I can clearly see why AM is going to be a benefit for me… because I’ll have guidance from pros who will edge me along in the right direction. These are high caliber people. Take Shawn Kelly for instance… the guy works for Industrial Light and Magic. Maybe some of you all on this board have industry contacts and it’s nothing major to see someone of this caliber on this site, but to me, it’s incredible. When I was a kid I use to go to the bookstore and sit on the floor and read this HUGE ILM book they had. It had all these models from Star Wars and it talked about the making of Star Wars, and I would just be blown away by it. 'Course I was young and that book cost a hell of a lot more than I could afford. And this guy works there. Yet he’s on this board taking questions about this program. These people are like pro athletes, in my opinion. We should be asking them to autograph our sketch books or something. lol.

cW

#418

clockwerkz - agree with u. It is up to u to work hard, study and learn to be the best, and these ones are the guys that have the best jobs. It is not only a talent thing, i´ve seen people with talent being overtake by really dedicated guys.(not saying that someone here is this or that). If u have a dream and “bust your ass”, like u said, and never give up, u certainly will get there.

Dedication and passion on what u do this is the key

oppps, just to bore, when are u going to start the enrollment??

#419

i guess two honest opinions could be this. one, this could make a really good book with dvd or cd. and the other one, at the academy art college and the pixar courses taught there. when you have deadlines and or a grade to worry about, it makes a BIG difference in motivation. it can be done w/o this…but…i wish all the best for this project.

#420

I think Shawn posted somewhere that there will be some sort of system in place to ensure the quality of the mentors. I think he also mentioned that currently there were around 30 of them. I wonder if their ability to critique will be more important than their ability to teach in this case as their lesson plans seem to be already in place for them. Some might be better than others at different levels of the program as well.

Also, not everyone who starts this program is going to finish it, nor does the program ensure you will come out with the ability to be a working animator. I think few will have the dedication and ability to make it to that level even with something as great as AM.

It would be interesting to know how many people have signed onto the AM mailing list. Hopefully those that register will at least have their feet wet in animation so spaces are not wasted. Just hope I get in :scream: