World's first consumer HD camcorder!

MGernot · 2003-02-24 14:07:11 UTC

holy …

Want it. When will the PAL-Version
be ready?

alphatron · 2003-02-24 15:54:04 UTC

Isn’t the HD format universal between PAL and NTSC?

xzevlin · 2003-02-24 16:10:02 UTC

I don’t think it’ll turn out as good as it sounds. It’s still a 1 ccd camera and it seems to be taking HD sized video and compressing them down to fit on miniDV cassettes. Isn’t that gonna mean alot of compression artifacts?

alphatron · 2003-02-24 16:13:51 UTC

I’m quite sure it’s 3 CCDs with ALOT of pixels. 600, 000 for each. And the compression is Mpeg 2, which is what the broadcasters use anyways.

CDS · 2003-02-24 17:17:00 UTC

Another factor(which hasnt been mentioned in the press release at all) is its component color sampling. If its still just 4:1:1, then its really no better than your highend DV component sampling. Now if its 4:2:2 then its right up there with Sony’s digital beta, and digital-S(JVC). I have a camera capable of 4:2:2 and it cost me over 20K, so if this can reproduce that quality(which I doubt), then this is one hell of a bargin.

xzevlin · 2003-02-24 18:11:52 UTC

There’s an official press release here that confirms that it’s only one ccd. It’s some sorta of super ccd though, not sure if the colour quality will be better though:
http://pro.jvc.com/prof/Attributes/press_res.jsp?model_id=MDL101394&feature_id=08

There is a rumour of a pro version of this cam getting announced at NAB. The JVC forum at Creative Cow has lots of rumours milling about.

alphatron · 2003-02-24 18:27:11 UTC

I’ll be damned… 1 CCD… that does seem strange.

Also wish it had 24P.

ggg · 2003-02-24 18:56:21 UTC

Originally posted by CDS
Another factor(which hasnt been mentioned in the press release at all) is its component color sampling. If its still just 4:1:1, then its really no better than your highend DV component sampling. Now if its 4:2:2 then its right up there with Sony’s digital beta, and digital-S(JVC). I have a camera capable of 4:2:2 and it cost me over 20K, so if this can reproduce that quality(which I doubt), then this is one hell of a bargin.

exactly, for us in CG the 4:1:1 will make it fairly useless for keying, and some CC and compositing

Savage_Henry · 2003-02-24 19:46:22 UTC

Originally posted by CDS
Another factor(which hasnt been mentioned in the press release at all) is its component color sampling. If its still just 4:1:1, then its really no better than your highend DV component sampling. Now if its 4:2:2 then its right up there with Sony’s digital beta, and digital-S(JVC). I have a camera capable of 4:2:2 and it cost me over 20K, so if this can reproduce that quality(which I doubt), then this is one hell of a bargin.

Sorry for the noob question, but what exactly is meant when talking about 4:1:1 vs 4:2:2. And how does this relate keying?

CDS · 2003-02-24 19:59:45 UTC

Component sampling 101

taking into account that computers work on a RGB color system, most video is captured and processed in a YUV color. Y is the luma component, U and V are the color differences. The ratio between Y, U and V sampling rates is used as a shorthand to indicate video recording quality.

Example:

4:4:4 means that luma and both color components are samples once per pixel.
4:2:2 means that Y has been sampled for every pixel, but U and V were each sampled for every other pixel.

Now there is also 4:4:4:4 sampling but that is including an alpha, but we wont go there.

This type of information is very important if you plan to composite/key video footage.

Hope this helps you out.

xzevlin · 2003-02-24 20:04:08 UTC

Here’s a good explanation, Savage:
http://www.studio1productions.com/Articles/411samp.htm

Basically 4:1:1 has less color information than 4:2:2, making it worse when you’re keying.

Originally posted by ggg
exactly, for us in CG the 4:1:1 will make it fairly useless for keying, and some CC and compositing

Ultimatte Advantedge does a great job on green screen footage shot on miniDV, so I’m guessing it’ll do a great job on stuff shot on this camera too.

Flywaver · 2003-02-25 06:57:22 UTC

It shocked he to see only 1CCD…but it’s a marketing strategy, JVC can still say they have the 1st consumer HD DV cam out there. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Canon come out with a 3CCD HD within a year…probably the same with Sony.

Cheers!

alphatron · 2003-02-25 07:01:34 UTC

Sony’s will own! It will probably be the succesor to the awesome VX2000 (of which I am a proud owner). Though I have to say the new Panasonic DVX100 (of which I just shot my thesis film with) is very very impressive in terms of options and picture quality. But the camera itself is quite flimsy and poorly designed.

danylyon · 2003-02-25 07:08:20 UTC

I would never buy anything from Sony again. My Sony Digicam is dying and has really odd behaviour.

I would love to see something like this:

HD resolution / 4:2:2 / only slightly compressed to a HARDDISK (DV is really not the apropriate format for HD)

and… yeah all this in a Canon XL1s case… :drool:

probably another few years to go… :hmm:

but after all… it’s a start.

alphatron · 2003-02-25 07:13:31 UTC

My VX2K has stuck with me through thick and thin… extreme weather, lots of shock, travelling, irresponsible operators, etc… and has always worked flawlessly. i know a few collegues and friends who’ve had Canon and Pana cams die on them for much less. Especially the crapper known as the GL1

I agree… the Canon body is pretty nice… but way too much plastic… which leads to problems. It’s also much more invasive than the Vx2K and PD150… which can be both a good, and bad thing.

Flywaver · 2003-02-25 07:16:14 UTC

hehe…we own an XL1 and we wouldn’t get anything else. I just saw an Arriflex 35mm Lens Adaptor for the XL1 on ebay! :buttrock:

Yup I agree about 4:2:2 with HD res…so far the JVC will output to HD but since it has only 1 CCD and slightly the same total pixels it might lose some details no? :shrug:

Cheers!