Wood Material does not look like wood


#15

You raise and make excellent points, James. Please notice my contributions to the new SolidWorks library:

https://my.solidworks.com/user/cdaff817-1fb2-4579-894a-c2b52c248b3b/models

Project%20is%20Educational

The nature of the project is Educational, and I have stated that this is and will forever be:

  • Free Open Source (those files do not belong to me, they belong to The People)
  • Not for Profit

I am pretty sure that since the goal is the utmost accuracy technical and humanly possible, the usage falls under the Fair Use Doctrine.

-Ramon
JFK Numbers


#16

Check the model we (a friend and I) are working on:

Reference images below:

Every single file produced is immediately placed in the project’s web server. They are in the public domain:

http://www.dealey-plaza.org/this-government-as-promised/

-Ramon
JFK Numbers


#17

When I began, several years ago, I had no idea about the meaning of PBR. Now I know better, thanks to you and other experts in forums like this.

The models have multiple versions, each for different purposes. They can be used standalone in a very detailed videoclip, or becoming part of a larger scene (like Titanic).

There are low-poly and hi-poly. See this video for instance:

TV Commercial of the Limo.mp4

It was done in Blender. Was first painfully polygon reduced by hand, it takes a whole night to generate the 300 frames for that 10-second video.

I am planning to have an exploded version of the Bell&Howell camera, something along these lines:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRgCA1ZB_EU

The project is supposed to become the ultimate public repository of every 3D model and version related to that case.

Since the advent of 3D capable computers, there have been 11 projects about the events and the Plaza.

This was the first:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoTuApu0QvQ

This is the latest, with a follow up in the works, I am told:

https://knottlab.com/news/angelos-leiloglou-interviewed-about-jfk-assassination-and-single-bullet-theory/

All of them have this in common: secrecy, hidden/proprietary files and preordained results.

A guiding principle of my/your/our project: “If there are hidden files, it is not Science”

-Ramon
JFK Numbers


#18

Re copyright, educational work should be just fine then, best of luck with the project!

The camera model is looking great, keep up the good work. Lots of nice little details in that reference should keep you busy :smiley:

If I were you id start putting your assets into the unreal engine, it may help you with your pipeline to know whats required for your end product.


#19

I am working on it. In any event, since this is an Open Source project anybody can contribute or even clone the whole web site and modify it at will. In software engineering we call that “fork”,

-Ramon
JFK Numbers


#20

James: Since you appreciate rendering and accurate details, I have a couple comments about the Stone Theater Candy Machine located in the 2nd. Floor’s Lunch room. It provided for one of my best renderings (courtesy of Corona).

I just made this videoclip, in order to illustrate some mistakes made in a famous movie:

Ollie Had the Wrong Model of Stoner Theater Candy Vending Machine

-Ramon
JFK Numbers


#21

If you folks look close, you will notice in both mirrors the image of the Coca-Cola vending machine.

My model is here:

Vintage 1963 Coca-Cola Vending Machine

It has a few mistakes on purpose. Oh, I am trying to find out the serial numbers used those days.

Reference Images

The guy that you see there, Brian Ebert recently purchased a real model and was restoring it. He was kind enough to donate the photos that I asked him to take.

-Ramon
JFK Numbers


#22

James: This is the 2nd. comment that I have for you or anybody interested on the fine details of rendering. It is about the precise color of the Stoner Theater Candy Vending Machine.

You folks can see in the URL below the reference images that I was able to find, mostly on the eBay site:

Reference Images in my Google Drive

There are two colors: red and green. The problem is that all the photos of the real device are in black & white.

The color of the Coca-Cola machine can be easily determined. This is the company that created an overweight Santa Claus living in the North Pole. They have nice TV ads every Christmas.

The preferred color chosen by almost every company dedicated to restoration is red.

However, I located a company that prides itself on accuracy, their restorations are “Museum Quality”. My kind of company.

Folks at Vintage Restorations saw the original photo and tell me that the machine was most likely mint green.

The issue was resolved by a world class expert.

[To be continued]

-Ramon
JFK Numbers


#23

I would have to agree with the mint green version. From my understanding the green fits the time period of 1920-1940, where as more red and vibrant yellows appearing between 1950-1970 - but this would be just an educated guess on my behalf, there’s always exceptions to this standard of course.

Also there seems to be some differences on your red model where the green version doesn’t have these details, ive marked these with a green arrow.


#24

Yep. I asked the Freelancer to produce versions in two colors. He used Corona.

  • Red. Definitely flashy, does have much need for PBR and textures. Real machines are good for bars, etc. For show. Eye candy.

  • Green. The PBR layer is badly missing.

-Ramon
JFK Numbers


#25

What does this mean?


#26

Those two are definitely different models. However, the one thing that I have learned in this, my chosen endeavor is that in those days -before computer automation- the quality control varied widely. Let’s say that they were assembling that machine and ran out of the standard part, they simply used another similar. They moved the locations of decals, etc.

I have repeatedly told the Freelancers, who tend to go for the look.

“When you find differences, always go the original photos (mostly in black&white)”

A good example of subtle differences in the Mosler Safe located in the 2nd. floor:

Mosler Safe

They have 2 for sale on eBay. Some times the sellers are nice enough to send me additional photos.

-Ramon
JFK Numbers


#27

Take a close look to a red machine and a green one in my GDrive:

If it was determined that a machine was red, I would say to the author: “I guess that’s close enough”. However, with the green version (I had no idea about PBR or textures) I told him: “Is that the best you can do? It doesn’t look like the one from Vintage Restorations”.

-Ramon
JFK Numbers


#28

I see what you mean, you are talking about the shader/material not matching the reference.

PBR is a standard or workflow - not a specific layer or texture. For example pep8 for Python programming is a standard. PBR for 3D would be a standard, it ensures that the textures generated for the object which create the shader/material look the same in different 3d packages or render engines. So when I say earlier if you are building these assets for unreal engine, if they are not PBR then you will be doubling your amount of work later down the track when you are ready to make this a real-time 3D asset.

Another example would be creating a piece of software or code that runs specifically on Windows OS, if later you wanted to port this to MacOS you would have to re-write that code, or parts of it. If you knew ahead of time that you wanted to put it on both operating systems you would have designed the code differently. This is the same concept for PBR, its designed so that you make the textures once and they fit all 3D pipelines, games, architecture, movies etc.


#29

Keep in mind that this project can be seen as a “Proof of Concept”, a demo. When a Freelancer (or friend, the one who is doing the Bell&Howell camera) gets anxious about details, I tell them: “Leave it like that, we need The People to find problems and solutions”. Example: I left the price of the soda at 25 cents, I expect future users to demand:

“Ramon, you rotten liar! Everybody knows that the price of a Coca-Cola in 1963 was 5 cents. How dare you say that the model is as accurate as technically and humanly possible?”

We will reply: “Thanks for keeping us honest - The label will be replaced”.

Something similar can be said of the excellent suggestions that you are making. Yes, they are needed. Hopefully they will be done someday.

I am far from having the resources -human and financial- to undertake a project of this magnitude, Even if I had the question is: Why should I be the one with this load over my shoulders?.

Sadly, there are 319,999,999 people (in one country alone) who are not doing the work that I am doing.

-Ramon
JFK Numbers


#30

The color was indeed green. This is the guy who solved the problem for me. Prepare to be amazed:

https://dynamichrome.com/

I filled a form in his website, to which he promptly replied. I always make a point of telling experts and companies: “This is for potential, future work. At this point all I have is a 1-man, Not-for-Profit foundation.”

Somewhere I read that he has had to spend a month working on colorizing ONE photo.

Several weeks later, Jordan came with the reply:

"“Hi Ramon, I ran the images with my colour chart and I am with you - it’s more the minty green colour rather than red.”

-Ramon
JFK Numbers


#31

Yes, I did a similar thing to determine the color was mint green as well. lol


#32

I always say: “This case will be solved by world class experts, each in their speciality. Only the best of the best need apply”

I have Jordan Lloyd and James Vella in my list of “People and Companies to contact in the future, when this project has adequate resources”

-Ramon
JFK Numbers


#33

Very kind of you Ramon. Good luck with the project


#34

I have an excellent example. There were two USPS mailboxes outside the building on that day. One called “USPS Relay Mailbox”, ugly green, only used by mail carriers to relieve their overworked backs. The other was the “US Street Collection Mailbox” used by the public. Those blue, red and white mailboxes were initially deployed in 1955.

Photo taken on June, 4th. 1964:

This one was taken later, the larger mailbox was gone:

I really like the way the SolidWorks version turned out… BUT…

Take a close look at the way the semi-circular metal parts were sealed:

I recently discovered this photo (is that Henry Kissinger, next to Lyndon Johnson?):

Notice how those days the equivalent of UV mapping, flattening was not very advanced:

-Ramon
JFK Numbers