So far im happy with Modo displacement mapping rendering ,but the interface i finding it a nightmare. Its like nothing is where I expect it, and it does odd things that no other application does.
Exsample, I zoom in to my object and the cameras apear to move away, same for lights. With this effect I cant determind just how far, close or in fact where the lights and camera is actualy positioned in 3d space ,in relation to the object?
Another odd thing is when I sellect a face, the transform tool dont apear, im finding im having to keep pressing Alt + Q every 10 seconds to sellect the transform tool. Why dont Modo just show me the last tool I used as soon as a face is sellected.
Extrude, I click extrude while a face is sellected, why would I need to click again on the face if I already have it sellected? I let go of the X key after clicking on the face and the transform tool is gone, why not just keep things simple? Sellect a face press X and the trasnform tool apears, I drag the handle and let go and the extrude is complete.
I keep reading how great Modo modler is but it seems it lacks simplicity and logic.
I hope there is a good reason why Modo does things the way it does. That little application called Hexagon 2 is so much quicker and logical that im starting to wonder if there is somthink wrong with me as I can fly around it like no other application iv tryed, it just lacks stabilty and rendering.
Dear Rectro, It is the same for me, and it is for that reason I give up from modo 201. In addition The texturing process is also a nightmare for me.
So, I give up this app…
Perhaps If The 301 version can read my LW scenes with the camera animation, and have a good walktrough GI mode, I will try it again and go back to it for rendering…
I found the switch from Hex to modo hard at first. Choosing Maya mouse controls helped a lot as it uses the alt-mouse buttons for all camera movement much like Hex. This is found in the System>Prefernces>Input remapping>Mouse Input Presets dropdown list.
Thanks Patrick, how are you dealing with the zoom thing, as its realy off putting and more so difficalt to know where things are placed. Hexagon may have its problems but im realy starting to see what gem it is, and how underated its become. Im sure there are plenty of high points in Modo but if the basics are not there then it becomes a bad trade off.
I’m sure I’m misunderstanding this but how would it be possible for you to zoom in and not have the lights and cameras move away? I’m not trying to be smart, I just don’t understand the problem?
Well, you’re not wrong here but for starters you could just hit the “Y” key (transform)instead of the Alt-Q combination. I actually reconfigure Alt-Q to bring up my own pop up of imported scripts since everything on that popup has a keyboard shortcut. I just rest my left hand over the QWERTY keys.
You just need to set the tool to “Auto-Activate” (Right click on it under the Tool Pipe once you’ve selected it and choose AAuto Activate. It will remain that way)
These are mostly workflow issues and depending on where you’re coming from you will have greater or lesser difficulty getting your head around it. i came from Solids and NURBS and battled with modo for about three months. then oneday I discovered i could use it as a pure polygonal modeler. That’s not really what i wanted but I had used form-Z previously so poly modeling was easy to adapt to. After that Sub-D came pretty quick. I was slow in it at first as well and wondered if I’d ever get fast enough in it to use it in production. That’s laughable to me now because I find it considerably faster than anything I’ve used before, . .now. I have tried and failed at a number of programs so my honest belief in most apps is either that you get them or you don’t. it seesm to be more about your experience and how your mind operates. I’d suggest posting some of your issues on the Lux forums (if you haven’t already). You’ll likely get more thorough answers than mine.
With the zooming issue il try to explain it more in detail. In all other applications when I add a light or camera ina orthorgraphic view its a for perfect placement using all 4 views. When I go into perspective and zoom closer like in other applications the camera and light remains in the same place in relation to where I had placed it. In Modothe lights and cameras apearas if Iv plcaed them about 1 mile away where in fact its positioned about 12 foot away from the model.
So in perspective view I re position the camera and lights so they apear at the correct distance and hight to find that when I zoom out both the camera and lights are inbedded inside the model?
I see now. You are correct. Modo currently does give you this odd feedback. I am not a beta tester for 301 so I can’t verify it, but this issue has supposedly been address/fixed in 301. I realize that doesn’t help you out in your current version.
i don’t have modo here , but i think you should use focal lenght control in camera options to just zoom without actually moving the camera in 3d space. it should behave like real camera lenses.
Honestly, I don’t have much use for modo 103, I’m just waiting for 301 for the painting, displacement, and rendering. I will probably still use Hexagon for my base modeling. It’s so fast and I’m very comfortable with it. I don’t have any of the problems some people talk about and there isn’t anything I can’t model with it.
Yes its vocal length and its driving me crazy, thanks for pointing that out Nemoid.
Every single time I zoom in and out I have to keep adjusting the vocal length. It would seem that while Modo apears to advance fast from one update to another, very simple things fail to work correctly.
In the time iv spent messing with a primitive ball in modo trying to get Modo to respond in a logical way I could have made a dam car in Hexagon 2. So far iv failed to get Modo to work like a “normal” 3d application to work, as in very very basic things that im having to set up manualy that should be there as default. Why Luxology didnt set up modo to work like other applications then give the user options to change things is behond me. As of yet im still unable to click on a object and have the transform tool show without me having to manualy sellect it.
Im having some major problems with the demo of 203. I dont think most people realize just how fast hexagon is untill you try other application. Part of me wants you scream with fusteration because Hexagon hasnt got the due attention is should have.
As it happends iv pre ordered the Modo 301 for a reasonable price but after the last week in modo 203 Im going to have to put a lid on this program till 301 comes out. If within 2 months of using Modo 301 im still having problems then im going to be sticking to my good old modler that cost me $1.99. Patrick I think you have the right idear.
You shouldn’t try to force Modo into the way you want it to work. I realize that it should not be the other way around either(the tool forces you), but you have to understand your tool at least(Modo). Know how it works, so that you can decide whether to use it or not.
That said, it is in fact possible to customize Modo more than every other tool I’ve ever used, be it by “just” changing the UI or using Macros or custom scripted tools.
As of yet im still unable to click on a object and have the transform tool show wiht me having to manual sellect it.
The transform tool is a tool like any other. That means it has to be activated to be used and can be dropped, when you are done. There is not need to select the object, as in other applications. As long as you are on the right (object-) layer, you can use all your tools to tweak it. When nothing is selected(no sub object) then everything is selected.
It took me a while to get used to Modo, but every time I realized how something works, which felt weird at first, I felt that it totally makes sense to do it the Modo way.
When I sellect a object, one of the first things Im likly to do is scale, translate or rotate it. When a object is sellected in Modo its asuming you want to do nothink with it. Now, if I wanted modo to be flexable id make it so there is a preset that follows traditional setups so people can get stuck right in and then adjust it how they want.
So when I first get into a new applicaiton first I learn is the navagation Pan, Rotate and zoom.
I expect it to be different as all aplications in one way or another is. Modo has no problems here. The first thing I find in Modo is that by default it has a track ball rotation enabled, im rotating all over the shot. Reading the manual, looking through forums I find this was the cause and where to find it. I then look for my camera and light in the scene! where has it gone? By default they are dissabled from being visable in the scene even when the eye icon shows its on. Again forums have saved me, why not just have it left on in the first place?
I want to add a light, I go into quad screens and try to zoom back so I can add a light, but it wont zoom out enougth ,so I have to scale the object down. So I click on the object and it dont sellect, ahh I have to sellect the sellect tool in order to sellect the object, then sellect the scale tool in order to scale it. Now these maybe silly little things ,but they all add up when you just want to get on with it. Dont the simple idear of clicking on a object where the gyro tool automaticly shows make more sence?
So iv got the object scaled down and click on the spot light, would have been nice to have the option to click in the top view to add the light in the place you want, but it dont matter as I cant see the light in the scene anyay. I have to enable the light, press he O key to open the options to see it in the scene, im thinking didnt I just do that already? I look into my perspective view and behold me, I cant see my light, I have to press O for every single view in order that I can see my dam light, of course it wasnt that quick to find that out, why cant I see a “apply to all view ports” tick box?
So my light is in the scene and I move it into place. but the light dont do nothing, still dont know why its not having a effect. Regardless of the light not working, I zoom in to see the light position closer ,so see the light is get further and further away the closer I get, after 3 hours I find out its a flaw in Modo for its vocal distance. So in one whole day let along all last week iv got nothing done. Sorry for ranting on but im very fusterated, this is my outlet.
I realy apreciate all your comments and help and Im not finnished with Modo but im waiting for the light to shine where I can say “Ohh now I know why this didnt work”.
Comming back to your problems from the first post:
Exsample, I zoom in to my object and the cameras apear to move away, same for lights. With this effect I cant determind just how far, close or in fact where the lights and camera is actualy positioned in 3d space ,in relation to the object?
This does definitly not happen to me. Cameras and lights stay in position. No matter how much I zoom in or out.
Another odd thing is when I sellect a face, the transform tool dont apear, im finding im having to keep pressing Alt + Q every 10 seconds to sellect the transform tool. Why dont Modo just show me the last tool I used as soon as a face is sellected.
Just use hotkeys to access the transform tools(W,E,R,T), like in other aplications.
Extrude, I click extrude while a face is sellected, why would I need to click again on the face if I already have it sellected?
You can either start the tool interactively, by clicking(and/or dragging) in the viewport(not the face), or numerically by entering numbers and using the ‘aply’ button. I guess it could be possible though to let Modo figure out what one wants and get rid of the apply button, making numerical changes dynamic. Also note, that the extra click in the viewport is only necessary if you want to limit your extrude to one axis(since you want the transform gizmo). Instead you can simply click+drag to execute the extrude interactively. The direction is in this case ‘guided’ by the workplane.
I let go of the X key after clicking on the face and the transform tool is gone, why not just keep things simple? Sellect a face press X and the trasnform tool apears, I drag the handle and let go and the extrude is complete.
Select a polygon, activate extrude, click+drag, drop - simple enough.
Don’t forget, that if you want to use a tool more than once, you can use the middle mouse button to reactive a tool.
Also, translations on sub object level are usually best done using the element move tool(t), not the move tool.
Thanks PD, il keep these helpfull hits at hand. One thing I will say, is when I work this program out im going to make a video tutorial showing where the basics are in relation to other applcation common usage. Im sure this will be usfull to others.
As mentioned, selecting objects is different in Modo. It works using layers/the item list.
Modo doesn’t assume anything. It can’t predict what you are going to do. You can’t say, transforming is the first thing you want to do with an object. That’s usually only true in the initial phase, when the object was just created. In this case, there are in fact handles to change the scale and position. But you’ll also find yourself selecting objects(changing between objects) throughout your entire work process, when you don’t want to transform them.
So when I first get into a new applicaiton first I learn is the navagation Pan, Rotate and zoom.
I expect it to be different as all aplications in one way or another is. Modo has no problems here. The first thing I find in Modo is that by default it has a track ball rotation enabled, im rotating all over the shot. Reading the manual, looking through forums I find this was the cause and where to find it.
Trackball is a good thing, I suggest you get used to it. It prevents getting ‘locked’ when looking straight down to the object.
I then look for my camera and light in the scene! where has it gone? By default they are dissabled from being visable in the scene even when the eye icon shows its on. Again forums have saved me, why not just have it left on in the first place?
Because you are in the modeling view. There is no need for a camera and light here, so you can focus on modeling. Change to the render view to do Lighting and Rendering.
I consider this separation of modeling and lighting a good thing. I don’t have to hide/unhide lights and cameras or change display filter settings. I simply change to the render viewport.
I want to add a light, I go into quad screens and try to zoom back so I can add a light, but it wont zoom out enougth ,so I have to scale the object down. So I click on the object and it dont sellect, ahh I have to sellect the sellect tool in order to sellect the object, then sellect the scale tool in order to scale it.
No, you don’t. You can select everything using the item list.
Now these maybe silly little things ,but they all add up when you just want to get on with it. Dont the simple idear of clicking on a object where the gyro tool automaticly shows make more sence?
I understand your frustration. I’ve gone through similar. Changing tools is never easy. Especially if tools present new ways of doing something. We simply are used to sticking with old habits.
So iv got the object scaled down and click on the spot light, would have been nice to have the option to click in the top view to add the light in the place you want, but it dont matter as I cant see the light in the scene anyay. I have to enable the light, press he O key to open the options to see it in the scene, im thinking didnt I just do that already? I look into my perspective view and behold me, I cant see my light, I have to press O for every single view in order that I can see my dam light, of course it wasnt that quick to find that out, why cant I see a “apply to all view ports” tick box?
You can change viewports using CTRL+Space. Unlike in other applications you don’t have to change them in most situations though, thanks to the workplane.
So my light is in the scene and I move it into place. but the light dont do nothing, still dont know why its not having a effect.
Because you are in modeling view? Check out the render view or preview render to see the effect of your light.
From your recent post I realize that you haven’t got your head around the fundamental principles of how Modo works. All I can recommend is reading through the documentation and watching the demo clips.
Pd you have been a great help thankyou. Iv taken a few hours off the pc as it was just getting to much after 9 hours solid at it. Your right the render view does apear to be the best place for setup. I have put a spot light in the scene and disabled the distant light now there is no light working. IM sure its somthing simple but at this stage cant work it out.
I have watched a lot of movies from which has got me this far, they dont seem to be located in the same place so they are a bit doted about Iv looked at the ones that came with Modo and skimed through the manual. I will take more time to look in the manual once I get the basics down, I learn better from video, I find it stays in my brain.
Take your time. I got the hang of it after about a week I guess. Back then, there was a huge download package(torrent I think) which had all those tiny videos, explaining every single tool. They were all linked in the user reference. So it was really cool, because you could use the ‘Active help’ to click on a tool, get some info and a demo video.
I know il get there but im constantly hitting walls all the time. Just got teapot in the scene and added a plane under it, cant assign a new shader to the plane, they are both glass. It seems im stopping every 3min into somthink.
modo’s lights have real world attributes such as inverse square falloffs. Distant lights are the exception as their intensity has no fall off (that’s what makes 'em a distant light right?).
Anyhoo, what’s probably happened is you’ve placed a spotlight in your scene but the light is too far away to affect the object it’s pointed at because the light intensity has fallen off to practically zero. This normally happens because you’ve not modelled your object at real world scales. So scale your mesh down to a sensible real world scale and then adjust the position/intensity of the spot light. You could always just turn the intesity up to something huge 10,000+ (not reccomended).
Lot’s of settings in modo use real world units so it is important to build your objects at sensible sizes to these numbers are meaningful.
I feel for your frustration but honestly most of the issues will go away if you read the manual and absorb all the expertise that’s to be found in the training vids, help files, tutorials etc. Stick with it!
I’m a little confused on this camera and light moving issue you believe you have. Focal length and zoom are not the same thing. To change the focal length you have to select the camera and adjust the focal length in all views. In camera view using the zoom function will move the camera but it will not change the focal length.
My cameras and lights stay exactly where they are place regardless of the view I’m in. But when you go into Model Single or Model Quad in order to see the light or camera objects you have to select Show Lights and Show Camera in the view options.
