When is a software package "Dead and "gone"??

#1

This is NOT a rant…but
There is a Curious phenomenon I see here that I never see on any other forum that I visit.
That is the accepted notion that once a company stops “Developing” a certain package,its over you should not buy it or use it anymore
even if is a very high end piece of kit with
many useful industry standard,features and still has a large user /knowledge base.

For Example there is an incredible animated short on the front page here (The alarm) where MAYA/Mental Ray& and yes the so called “defunct” Shake was used.
I think Shake 4.1 is ,and will be, a very capable
node based compositing solution for many years
even though there may never be an update.
Yes I know the history that apple bought it Dumped Windows support (not surprising really)
and apparently is not “developing” it any further.

but I continue to use it and continue to be amazed at the people who yell: “NO buy Nuke/toxic etc.!!” Whenever shake is mentioned.
I use many packages some new some not so new
but just as many of us will buy and Drive a used, Discontinued Vehicle model for years I dont panic
and run to get the latest program just because
some company has stopped making new version
in fact only when My Computer OS will no longer
support it, will I bother to $$upgrade$$ from Photoshop CS1.

Just wondered what your thoughts were on this issue.

Cheers

#2

You don’t need to stop using a product just because the developer stops working on it. Shake is an obvious example, but there are plenty of other packages that where used well past their useful date. Studiopaint, Matador, Commotion and Elastic Reality are a few of the software packages I can think of that have been used despite no longer being developed - either because there wasn’t much alternative or because they did the job better than the alternatives.

#3

Shake still gets quite a bit of usage. The problem is that, eventually, it will become outdated and so delaying your training in another piece of software by a couple years puts you at a disadvantage as your peers will know it better by that time.

If you’re an independent artist with your own clientale and a workflow that works or a large facility with an established pipeline, the switch to a more modern piece of software might not be advantageous for quite some time.

But if you’re a freelancer hoping from shop to shop or a small shop dependent on such freelancers, adapting the most common software guarantees you greatest choice of artists and the greatest choice of work respectively. So when people drop Shake and begin learning Nuke you do the same.

#4

I am a Self employed Freelance Generalist who
prefers to use my own Software /hardware
Compositing is only a part of what I do
I rarely ,if ever, trade native project files with clients
I just deliver rendered output.

#5

You can still use old software, but you won’t get any support, bug fixes or new features. And when you upgrade your hardware, if it doesn’t work then you can’t use it - eg 64 bit Linux.

Shake was offered with unlimited licenses and source code for the price of 10 licenses which several companies snapped up. I have heard that Double Negative have put a lot of work into getting Shake on 64 bit Linux, but this is only possible because they have the source. It would be nice if more unsupported software had the source code available.

Simon

#6

I know a ton of people still using Shake, I know Lucas Film uses it a lot on the Starwars TV show.

#7

ILM just purchased a Nuke site license…the rest of the company can’t be far behind.

#8

I think some packages will never die for some people because that particular package is all they know and they don’t know how to learn move on. For some, moving on is too hard. So they keep using the old stuff until their computer dies or until it no longer functions in the latest OS. And then they become obsolete like their software.

It can take a long time for a piece of software to become totally dead.

A lot of people still use lightwave and silo. :stuck_out_tongue:
runs away

#9

I have a friend that has an amiga emulator to use their OLD OLD OLD OLD OLD Paint package!! He has actually used it on projects (and I mean current ones)…he just knows how to do some stuff in it that you can’t really do anymore.

I personally have no problem with scrapping the past and moving forward. I learned Shake in 2000 in college using version 1.5 on SGI machines. I started using Nuke about 3 years ago when Shake stopped being supported…I was just sick of how insanely slow and under-optimized it was and wanted something better, I convinced the studio to get it and never looked back (well except when a studio I’m working at only has shake)

#10

I think Shake will be used on features for years more. The studios who bought the source code from Apple are free to update and extend it, build it into their own software in modified forms, etc. and will probably keep using it until they decide there’s something else that’s worth the time and money (mostly the time) to switch.

I’ve seen studios still using Elastic Reality many years after Avid discontinued it. They were using it for roto, not morphing, but if a tool works well and you already own it and know how to use it, the fact that it’s no longer getting developed isn’t by itself enough of a reason not to keep using it on more films.

-jeremy

#11

A lot of people still use lightwave and silo. :stuck_out_tongue:
runs away

seriously ??
it is necessary ?
how about that one …?
amazing lightwave rendering

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=154&t=789958

it was still on the front page yesterday

now show us some of the amazing work that you are doing with those 3d software that are still ““alive””

then it would help you to validate your opinion

thank you

#12

Xtrm3d, Bucket was just joking (and I got a laugh out of it) about Lightwave’s (perceived) popularity and Silo’s lack of development. Everyone knows they’re solid programs.

The one that gets me is XSI7, when people go on about how it’s dead now Autodesk own it. That program is going to have legs for a loooong time.

I’ve seen studios still using Elastic Reality many years after Avid discontinued it.

Via XSI, or…?

#13

Its a slow death with autodesk, not like their going to discontinue the program or absorb it into maya. (I’m saying this half jokingly.)

#14

Perhaps, but the point is that even if you never upgrade it, it’ll be good for a lot, for a long time.

#15

ho yeah, companies have been keeping around an SGI box just to run an old copy of Elastic Reality for the morphing.

However, in the last four years many clones of the tools have apeared in all compositors, and the fact that ER doesn't support floating point images (like OpenEXR) makes it now totally obsolete.

I have indeed heard that people have been using it for roto as well, but I can't see why.  It only has bezier curves (bsplines would be a better option), there is no tracker, and the performance is not great.  Except for its nice shape grouping feature, you might as well use an old copy of Commotion if your going to go for old.  Or go for Combustion, whcih does have the bezier/bspline, dopsheet, etc.

p.s.: I 'm the person that put Elastic Reality in Softimage|XSI

#16

Not much point in me showing rigs. A bunch of bones or joints rarely makes me people go wow, no matter what it is demonstrating.

Anyways, sorry I offended thee. I promise to mail your goat back to you as soon as I acquire enough stamps to cover postage. :thumbsup: (another joke, I do not have a real goat in my possession, only the imaginary type and I have plenty of postage stamps)

#17

I’m still using Animation:Master! :slight_smile:

#18

heh, you would be surprised. It will be a while.

#19

The only real problem with using software that isnt supported anymore, is that you’re stuck if you run into a bug or voodoo of some sort. Typicly when you’re deep into the most advanced features and really pushing the envelope of what you can do, then you might discover that this causes the program to crash or do the wrong thing. You cant go shouting at the backoffice support to fix it, and you cant fix it yourself because you dont have the source code… and if you did, its not properly documented. And so on.

#20

The problem may occur when your PC is gone :cry: The new PC will require new OS, because the old one (if it is really old) will be unable to run or to run properly - no drivers, some kind of noncompatibilty. This new OS will not accept old software as you can not run a bunch of software in Vista. So this is the magic formula for kicking users to spend a lot of money for upgrading.
Did you saw masters (mechanics for example or painters) and their tools - they are old, rusty, ragged, skewed, nasty looking but they know them from many years and can make miracles. They know them and all they need is time to use them.
I am still using RealDraw 4, which is about 4 or more years old (recently was an upgrade to v. 5) but I know it from 2001 when it was v. 2.2 so it works. And I am using XP 32 :slight_smile: