what the heck is going on with HASH

#381

Originally posted by Amanda
[B]I must just be more cynical, then. After all, even Microsoft can’t make software that works as advertised with a decent manual. In my experience, that’s the exception, not the rule.

Amanda Walker [/B]

For me the only two programs I’ve bought since 1994 that worked completely as advertised, came with complete manuals and have never crashed are SAW Plus, a now defunct but wonderful multitrack/audio editing program and Audio Tracks Professional, a neat little midi music generator. I always kick myself for not buying the extra style packs for that program but I was out of work then. The small company that designed that program was swallowed up by Microsoft. Oh, well. Maybe the extra style packs will turn up on e-bay someday. All the graphics programs (from Adobe, Fractal Design, Meta Creations, etc.) have required more books and/or tutorial tapes/CDs. And those have all crashed at one point or another.

The only completely pro-program I’ve worked with that had a complete and very easy to understand manual had dedicated hardware…the AKG (later Orban) DSE-7000 digital audio workstation designed for radio station use. But it did crash occasionally…in its early versions.

#382

Originally posted by Kevin Sanderson
[B]For me the only two programs I’ve bought since 1994 that worked completely as advertised, came with complete manuals and have never crashed are SAW Plus, a now defunct but wonderful multitrack/audio editing program and Audio Tracks Professional, a neat little midi music generator. I always kick myself for not buying the extra style packs for that program but I was out of work then. The small company that designed that program was swallowed up by Microsoft. Oh, well. Maybe the extra style packs will turn up on e-bay someday. All the graphics programs (from Adobe, Fractal Design, Meta Creations, etc.) have required more books and/or tutorial tapes/CDs. And those have all crashed at one point or another.

The only completely pro-program I’ve worked with that had a complete and very easy to understand manual had dedicated hardware…the AKG (later Orban) DSE-7000 digital audio workstation designed for radio station use. But it did crash occasionally…in its early versions. [/B]

Hi,Amanda
you are right
there is very few programms with real good manuals
But, I think, look at with 3DS Maxs, LW,C4D, or blender and wings(totaly free)
have all printed manuals and pdf or html option

they all have manuals that I CANLEARN A LOT
AM has NO MANUALS at all( that what is bundled is company’s dvertising pamflet )

IT is a big differences
I don’t need 10 000 pages as maya or so
but please I don’t know what is in program at all
I have to be 16 hours on-line to ask soem damn trivial question as where is button for visibilitey
DAMN

#383

Originally posted by Ben Lumumba
AM has NO MANUALS at all( that what is bundled is company’s dvertising pamflet )

Hmm. Well, I haven’t seen a 2003 CD yet, but for 2000, 2001, and 2002, there were manuals on the CD (and I just checked–they’re still on the Hash FTP site, free for anyone to download)…

They’re not the world’s greatest manuals, but they aren’t bad.

Amanda Walker

#384

Well, I was wondering if I should upgrade this year (I’m still on 8.0 courtesy of the paper envelope the 8.5 upgrade CD was sent in :slight_smile: )
But reading that Egginton has given up on hash pretty much put the boot down on that notion.

I’ll share my Sappington annecdotes with youse some other time, I’m off to bed now… :slight_smile:

#385

WOW! I can’t believe it. People are STILL having to cringe when they use the ‘undo’ button in A:M.

Makes me glad I gave up on this program, almost 2 years ago. :thumbsdow

#386

Cant you peole dispute the charges

I would dispute them so fast it would not be funny … believe me, your credit card company does not want to loos your business

#387

Originally posted by Bugle
[B]Well, I was wondering if I should upgrade this year (I’m still on 8.0 courtesy of the paper envelope the 8.5 upgrade CD was sent in :slight_smile: )
But reading that Egginton has given up on hash pretty much put the boot down on that notion.

I’ll share my Sappington annecdotes with youse some other time, I’m off to bed now… :slight_smile: [/B]

What a anocdote ,please tell me,plase
okay
I’ll be good user:)
I’l send A appropriate post
just tell me
okay

#388

umm, I didn’t mean to leave a “narrative hook”, like I said I was tired :slight_smile:

It’s not so interesting really. Back in the day, I entered the monthly Hash image contest, and there was a participant who used to “recreate” images using a lot of 2D textures to add detail. The technique and result was uncomfortably close to outright plagiarism, but when I notified Steve he pooh-pooed the notion. I replied a bit passionately about the subject and he gave me the “I don’t appreciate your comments” line.

To sum it up, I backed off, decided never to go near the hash contest and privately decided that the artist wasn’t doing himself any favours with his method and hash was only giving itself bad publicity with obviously faked shots. It was with some satisfaction that I saw about a year later some other person spill the beans and create a huge ruckus on the list. :slight_smile:

When I got the cracked upgrade CD I was afraid I’d get hit for the full A:M price import tax when receiving the fedex package, Steve did offer to mark the stated value of the package as low as possible, which was nice of him. But frankly, I was pissed off at receiving a “free midyear upgrade” with a broken CD and I didn’t trust him to remember to make the special arrangements to my package, so I decided to take a few years off upgrading. I was thinking of coming back this year, but this thread has put a serious damper on that idea … I still might though.

#389

Originally posted by Bugle
[B]umm, I didn’t mean to leave a “narrative hook”, like I said I was tired :slight_smile:

It’s not so interesting really. Back in the day, I entered the monthly Hash image contest, and there was a participant who used to “recreate” images using a lot of 2D textures to add detail. The technique and result was uncomfortably close to outright plagiarism, but when I notified Steve he pooh-pooed the notion. I replied a bit passionately about the subject and he gave me the “I don’t appreciate your comments” line.

To sum it up, I backed off, decided never to go near the hash contest and privately decided that the artist wasn’t doing himself any favours with his method and hash was only giving itself bad publicity with obviously faked shots. It was with some satisfaction that I saw about a year later some other person spill the beans and create a huge ruckus on the list. :slight_smile:

When I got the cracked upgrade CD I was afraid I’d get hit for the full A:M price import tax when receiving the fedex package, Steve did offer to mark the stated value of the package as low as possible, which was nice of him. But frankly, I was pissed off at receiving a “free midyear upgrade” with a broken CD and I didn’t trust him to remember to make the special arrangements to my package, so I decided to take a few years off upgrading. I was thinking of coming back this year, but this thread has put a serious damper on that idea … I still might though. [/B]

Huuu I got it …

tipicaly Steve …report a bug and when we reproduce it
everything will be okay

BTW are you profy in 3d industry?
Any opinion about Electric Image Universe as substitute for AM
I go away frmo AM definitely not worth
http://www.electricimage.com
http://dvgnew.padd.com/index.php

#390

Originally posted by Bugle
When I got the cracked upgrade CD I was afraid I’d get hit for the full A:M price import tax when receiving the fedex package, Steve did offer to mark the stated value of the package as low as possible, which was nice of him. But frankly, I was pissed off at receiving a “free midyear upgrade” with a broken CD and I didn’t trust him to remember to make the special arrangements to my package, so I decided to take a few years off upgrading. I was thinking of coming back this year, but this thread has put a serious damper on that idea … I still might though.

Wow, how dare Steve be nice and offer to help you out like that. And that he wasn’t personally responsible for the mail people that broke your CD…for shame!!! Truly this is a devastating indictment on Steve. Are you feeling my sarcasm here?

So when you told him how you wanted the package to be sent, what did he say? When you got the broken CD and you told him what was wrong, what did he say?

Personally I wouldn’t let something this minor keep me from upgrading, but I’m probably a bit more bullheaded… well at least that’s what my wife says :stuck_out_tongue:

#391

I did appreciate the offer, but at this point I was already kicked off the list for some comment I cannot remember, plus my previous interaction which had left a very bad aftertaste. And lets not forget that this CD mailing was an initiative Hash undertook for reasons not directly related to program functionality - The new CD had a different copy protection mechanism they wanted to put in place immediately.

So they mailed a reduced percentage of their users a free CD, in a paper envelope. International. Blaming postal workers for the result is like blaming the truck driver that runs you over when you decide to dance in the middle of the highway. I was not the only one with a broken CD, by a lot. And then they decided it was too expensive and started charging fedex to whoever wanted it.

The way I see it, the created the need for a new CD-key, they should make sure the transition is smooth for registered customers. And if they market to penny-pinching tightwads like me, they shouldn’t ask us for unexpected expenses.

Anyway, 8.0 hardly ever crashes for me, and it looks like I made a good decision avoiding 9.0. And there just doesn’t seem to be any overpowering reason to upgrade yet. I guess I’ll start saving for Maya :slight_smile:

#392

Most of you guys being thrown off the list are really LUCKY…

I was never allowed ON the list, because I mailed Steve and the folks some bug-reports and views on their bugfix-policy.

After that I assume Steve did a cursory judgment that I would write something negative on the list, and simply did not allow me on the list.

So, not only are they being iron-fisted, they also practice pre-judgment like in the “Minority Report” (“we know you will make a crime… so we stop it before it occurs… and punish you too…” - duh… :shame: )

Cheers,
Rune

#393

I was actually thrown off the list before I ever even made a posting. I still don’t know why. My e-mails were simply unreturned. However, I think the mailing list search engine is probably better. You can search for your problem – odds are you aren’t the first – without be inudated with all the noise common on every list.

#394

I remeber reading in Martin’s Minutes after the last Siggraph. They all went to a resturaunt that specialized in bad service, surly servers, and food thowing encouraged. Martin said they had a good time, except for Ken who left in disgust. This makes sense, because the Hash customer relatoins policy is just like the resturaunt’s. This picture is starting to make sense in a twisted sort of way.

Cheers, Graham

#395

Hiya.

All this talk kinda got me thinking. I was saying to myself “What a pice of sh*% software!”. Then it hit me. The only real reason why the software ‘sucks’, is because of who’s making it. It’s like seeing a bright, quick witted, personable child…who has an abusive father and crack whore mother. You think, “Aww. That kid has such potential!”. But you know the old saying…“You can’t choose your parents”.

I’m thinking of AM that way. It has such potential. I started using AM with AM98 (started with trueSpace2; AM was my second app). If AM had been in the hands of a company like Pixologic, or even Avid or Newtek…I’m betting AM would be a serious contender for the ‘mid price’ range (it would probably be about $750) right now. It would likely be quite stable, and “play well with others”. But, AM is owned by Hash. And Hash is like the abusive father; holding AM back. Sad, really.

#396

Originally posted by Paul L. Ming
If AM had been in the hands of a company like Pixologic,

Yeah, if Pixologic were making AM the updates would always come out 7 times later then what they say and the interface would be so bass-ackwards when you clicked on a bone it would bring up the material editor. On second thought, maybe Pixologic wouldn’t be sucha good choice… :drool:

#397

Originally posted by My Fault
Yeah, if Pixologic were making AM the updates would always come out 7 times later then what they say and the interface would be so bass-ackwards when you clicked on a bone it would bring up the material editor. On second thought, maybe Pixologic wouldn’t be sucha good choice… :drool:

My Fault,

I dont know what your talking about Pixologic has always done a great job with thier software. If your talking about the 1.55 release its not really an update to 1.5 but more of a new version with lots of extra features, in my mind updates are put out to fix bugs not add features. Sure it took longer then they said it would be you still have a rock solid app, I have not got a crash with ZB since I have owned it back at version 1.23.

Pixologic listens to the users and you can post what ever you want on the forum they are a great bunch of folks. Just because you wait an extra 6 months for 1.55 makes them a bad company? If that what you belive then I dont think you will be happy with any company. They could have said nothing about 1.55 or shown no previews of what they are working on and just put it out 6 months later and you would have thought it was great.

Come on man Pixologic is one of the best companies out there hands down.

#398

I would consider Pixologic more of a wash, not bad, not good. Putting out a demo with features that real users didn’t have…not good. Always taking longer then they say to release updates (many, many times in the past)… not good. Worst interface in an app since the beginning of history… not good (personal opinion of course).

But hey, if they make you happy, that’s great for you, just don’t think that everyone thinks that everyone agrees with you on that, cuz they don’t. Kind of like Hash, some people love them, some people hate them. Don’t take it personal. :thumbsup:

#399

I think LW has the rep of the worst interface ever. ZB’s inteface makes perfict sence once you understand how it works. There is a learning curve coming from a standard modeling app I do agree with that.

The demo thing I do agree with too but it was only a week or so from the demo release till the full update came out so not bad.

Plus they treat the users right and that goes a long way and the app is solid so i’ll give them a break on the release.

I’m not taking it personal just trying to understand where your coming from.

#400

Originally posted by dfaris
[B]I think LW has the rep of the worst interface ever. ZB’s inteface makes perfict sence once you understand how it works.

While I agree that some learning is essential with any piece of software, the hallmark of a well-designed interface is one that is, to the maximum extent possible, self-evident. For me, it’s not so much whether it ‘makes sense’ after I learn it, it’s what kinds of mental gymnastics I have to endure in order to understand the reasoning behind it.