what the heck is going on with HASH


#261

Originally posted by giantkiller
I just want to thank everyone especially Gilles. I was getting ready to throw myself into the arms of Hash, upgrade, invest in training videos and CDs, and just accept AMs shortcomings and deal with it all (creases, crashes) when the fire broke out! I have decided to continue my search for a software program. Any comments on ElectricImage Universe? You know, if some of these other software companies were to find out about ‘The Great Hash List Incident’ they may take advantage of this opportunity to lure some of you away with some deals for disgruntled AM users. Randy
P.S. I liked the elf (Perk), but whats up with that buldge in his pants?:rolleyes:

I got free MAYA,XSI,Houdini…and some other smaller packs
MAYA is easiest to learn for me
XSI is bit harder to learn and Houdini is as you are for example christian and I start teach you budhismus
fully anothe world
wonder how can be done that way


#262

Originally posted by My Fault
You did not pay to join the list you paid to use the software. It has nothing to do with conforming and everything to do with living up to what you agreed to. No offense but if you can’t live up to your part of the bargain, what does that make you?

I pAID FOR UNUSEABLE SOFTWARE which feeds itself from crashes as a virus or parasite,as much crashes gets bigger
I bought 3d programm with no documentation/manuals
for my money I can’t get support,actualy I have to buy some new computers,graphics card and two,tree Os’s to checck which one is not corrupted and to be honoured to work with AM


#263

Originally posted by Cosmics
[B]. As for crashing - i honestly can’t remember what the last time was it crashed.

  • Vuk [/B]

Huuu,very promissing from version 10

BTW, did you move mouse after you started AM


#264

Originally posted by Max_Power
I have A:M 9.5, it seems to crash more in XP. Dynamics crash it a lot. I wish I knew the super secret to keeping it crash free :eek:

run uninstallwise.exe


#265

Originally posted by walasek
[B]

If you think of all the basic features of AM, there actually is quite a lot of things (whether they work or not is another story). But modeling, texturing, bones, muscle, animating, lights, camera, render options, etc (you get the picture). It would be better if we all pooled our money, bought out AM, and fixed the bugs for a year… [/B]

if you have 10 features and 8 doesn’t work or work and system crush’s,THAN YOU DON’T HAVE 10 YOU HAVE 2 FEATURES


#266

Originally posted by jaymackey
[B]Yes, Arthur, I should have said, “Some of you ‘seem’ to be missing the point.” I have taken a few posts on here to say that we have no right to complain.

I also do not think that you – or even necessarily Victor, depending on the substance of all of his opinions on the subject – are one of the Hash Myrmidons I was referring to, in case you were wondering. [/B]

WHAT IS Myrmidons?


#267

Myrmidons? Uh… the followers who follow without question- like sycophants only one less letter involved.


#268

In case anyone is interested, I have a copy of AM 8.5 up for bid on eBay. Just search ‘Animation Master’ under ‘Software’. My eBay ID is ‘rjwin’. It’ll be up for just a few more days. Oops, I didn’t violate any advertising rules did I? Sorry, forgot what list I was on for a moment.:smiley:

Sorry for being sarcratic, sacrilatic,… I can’t spell sarcastic!!:mad:


#269

Wov…this is a long thread. I better add something to it. :bounce:

I came to AM in a little different way than most. I first learnt SoftImage3D, then worked in Maya on a TV series. And then bought AM to play around with at home. I liked it, it was simple and fun…and for some godly intervention didn’t crash too much on my old messy machine (this was v7). It had excellent character animation tools, but was seriously lacking in other areas. After some testing, I figured it was best used for simple characters (cartoony stuff)…so I made this Flower Power film (QT). Simple characters, fun animation, cartoon render…everything worked like a charm.

I then upgraded to AM 8.5, and started modeling something more advanced, but soon got into a lot of trouble with creases. In fact I was spending ages trying to connect the splines around the nose and mouth in different configurations, adjusting bias handles and what not…without getting much improvement (the creases would just move around to different places). So I gave up…though probably not permanently. If only they could get rid of those creases, I would be a happy camper (or just switch to using subdivision surfaces like the rest of the world).

I learned a few things though. With AM, don’t run to a new version. Read the mailing list and figure out from the poor souls that are using the latest AM if it’s working. This is one of the reasons I never upgraded to 9 or 9.5. Might go for 10 though, if I have a project I can use it for.

Don’t try to make anything too advanced. AM may have cloth, particles and more on it’s feature list…but these don’t work too well. For simple cartoony characters though it works fine (Alien Song for instance). I think Hash should focus their efforts on the core code, modeling, rigging, textures, renderer, docs and the SDK…and try to make deals with third party developers to do cloth, particles, dynamics, hair, export to other renderers etc. or license existing code (like the Havoc dynamics engine or Joe Alter hair). After all Hash inc. only has 5 or so programmers, and to pull of high quality hair, cloth, particles, renderer, modeler, animaton system etc. is simply too big a job for such a small team.

AM is still focused on the low end users, and they don’t prioritize implementing features only high end users will enjoy, such as scripting. That’s not really a problem, as high end users can use high end software. But Hash should not try to compete with all the highend software and try to include every function you find in XSI or Maya. Their focus has been character animation, and I think they should stick to that. Leave the dynamics and effects to others (there are always ways to fake them).

Anyways…that’s just my oppinion.

Ragnar

p.s. I don’t really have a trouble with the mailing list, it’s their’s they can run it anyway they want. Though I do think AM users lack a good alternative and independant web message board. No offence to cg-talk, but preferebly dedicated and with different catagories for modeling, texturing, character setup and so on (like the Maya and XSI boards at highend3d.com ).


#270

I would actually be prepared to pay more for less!!

Never thought I would hear meself say something like that :wink:

But actually.

If Hash would raise the price to lets say $499.

I would be prepared to pay it even if they removed…

all de bugs (I simply don’t like them)…
all traces of spline modelling ( switch to SubD models)…
the possibility to import .mdl model files (who need’em)…
the render engine (use RMan and PovRay)…

:bounce:

HellBorn


#271

“Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.”
Will Rogers


#272

Check this out:
http://www.caligari.com/store/special/news_jan03/roman_interview.html
Its an interview with Roman Ormandy, President of Caligari talking about the new changes coming with trueSpace 6.5.
Admitting that the animation code was old so they rewrote it. And that with version 6 they focused on improving the modeling aspects of the program.
I find his openess refreshing. And I find trueSpace much more appealing seeing that they apparently have a step by step plan for improvements and they openly talk about it!

What a contrast with how a certain other program has been managed lately.:hmm:


#273

Originally posted by giantkiller
Check this out:
Its an interview with Roman Ormandy, President of Caligari talking about the new changes coming with trueSpace 6.5.
Admitting that the animation code was old so they rewrote it. And that with version 6 they focused on improving the modeling aspects of the program.
I find his openess refreshing. And I find trueSpace much more appealing seeing that they apparently have a step by step plan for improvements and they openly talk about it!

Thanks for the info. True Space does sound more appealing, at least they will allow you to “Rant and Rave” on their community board as one board topic says. :slight_smile: I still like AM though and I hope it gets better!


#274

Martin Hash speaking, This is for those not on the list anymore.

"Dear Customers;

Concerning the recent events on the mailing list. I want to personally
thank those of you who publicly and privately contacted us with hundreds of
calls and emails affirming your support. It is gratifying to know just how
many A:M users really appreciate the commitment we’ve made to you. I
especially want to thank those brave souls who risk their own reputations
arguing for us in the hate forums - I owe you all a beer or a feature,
whichever you want.

As for our detractors, they fall into three categories:
Religious zealots for other software - I have no argument with their
choice or stance.
Truly evil mofos - hell awaits them.
Former A:M users - I hope their outbursts are cathartic. A:M
generates loyalty and commitment in its adherents. Sometimes, when life and
career goals force changes in allegiance, the artist backlashes. I don’t
hold it against them. Eventually, I want them to think of A:M like they do
their first bicycle: with fondness and respect, and then pass it on to
someone who needs it.

For now, our primary focus will remain on stability, as it has been for over
a year, and any true errors in the renderer are always immediately
addressed. As a quick explanation, when we “release” a version number, we
try not to work on that code base again, even to fix bugs, because any
changes always cause changes, and users would rather “release” software
remain consistent, even with known errors. All of our major changes go into
the next version, so if you lobby to have something changed, look for it in
the current Alpha/Beta.

So, if your goals continue to be making your own art and telling your own
story, we are there for you.

Thanks again for being there for us.

Sincerely,

Martin Hash

p.s. Ken promises not to make any more provocative statements on the
mailing list."

Looks prommising.


#275

Where did this email come from? Was this posted on the AM list?


#276

yea it’s from the list


#277

I guess I’m one of those Former AM users with cathartic outbursts…

… either that or a truly evil mofo (several people vouched for me on that!)…

… in which case I’ll have to share my hell with Martin…

… oooooh…

… can’t wait…
:bounce:


#278

You know I really do think Martin Hash, Steve and Ken just don’t get it. None of the posts I read on the AM list were attacks. If I got this much good solid constructive feedback from my user base. . . I’m pretty damn sure I would thank everyone and promise to improve the product.

Not rationalize, patronize and satirize. . .


#279

As for our detractors, they fall into three categories:
Religious zealots for other software - I have no argument with their
choice or stance.
Truly evil mofos - hell awaits them.
Former A:M users - I hope their outbursts are cathartic

Looks prommising

oh come on…

:rolleyes:


#280

quote================================
Dear Customers;

Concerning the recent events on the mailing list. I want to personally
thank those of you who publicly and privately contacted us with hundreds of
calls and emails affirming your support. It is gratifying to know just how
many A:M users really appreciate the commitment we’ve made to you. I
especially want to thank those brave souls who risk their own reputations
arguing for us in the hate forums - I owe you all a beer or a feature,
whichever you want".
End quote=============================

Martin you have missed the point as well as you miss fixing bugs. The point
of all us religious zealots, evil mofos and former AM users posting to the email list that
we have now got booted from is because we liked AM and wanted it to become
the app it should be and work the way you say it works.

Nobody has risked there
reputations arguing for hash anyone that is know in the hash community is still well
respected like the fine folks at Eggington and Victor and everyone else. The reason
there are “Hate forums” is because you at hash have forced us to go to other platforms
and it is nice to see people able to talk and ask questions without the fear of being booted
because we speak the truth and AM.

One more time so you might get it, WE WANT AM TO BE THE APP IT SHOULD BE
AND CAN BE.

quote========================================
As for our detractors, they fall into three categories:
Religious zealots for other software - I have no argument with their
choice or stance.
Truly evil mofos - hell awaits them.
Former A:M users - I hope their outbursts are cathartic. A:M
generates loyalty and commitment in its adherents. Sometimes, when life and
career goals force changes in allegiance, the artist backlashes. I don’t
hold it against them. Eventually, I want them to think of A:M like they do
their first bicycle: with fondness and respect, and then pass it on to
someone who needs it".
End quote=======================================

AM generates loyalty and commitment by kicking people off the email list and
trapping people into buy an upgrade each and every year for software that never
works the way you say it should. I don’t want to think of AM as my old broken bicycle
that don’t work the way it once did I want to think of it as a bright shinny streamline
machine that is fast and looks good.

quote====================================
For now, our primary focus will remain on stability, as it has been for over
a year, and any true errors in the renderer are always immediately
addressed. As a quick explanation, when we “release” a version number, we
try not to work on that code base again, even to fix bugs, because any
changes always cause changes, and users would rather “release” software
remain consistent, even with known errors. All of our major changes go into
the next version, so if you lobby to have something changed, look for it in
the current Alpha/Beta".
End quote=========================================

What about all of us that have version 9 and 9.5 with all the bugs still in there? are
we all SOL? The out cry on the list is telling you that your explanation about released version
is wrong and people feel like they are getting ripped off. If you fix it in the next release
(that we have to pay another $99 for) and changes cause changes is it not causing changes in that too.
JUST FIX THE VERSION WE HAVE so you don’t have to keep putting it off till the next version.

quote==========================================
So, if your goals continue to be making your own art and telling your own
story, we are there for you."
End quote=======================================

They are and always have been but you are not there for us by kicking us off the list and
making us pay for the next version to get bugs fixed in the one we have.

When will hash wake up and see the big picture? We like AM and still think the animation tools
are great but you are not seeing the point. The users want the modeling tools to be improved and the
world class renderer brought up to par with other renderers. If that means no next version for the next year
so what. We don’t want to be kicked from the list for asking about a bug because HASH say its our computer
or we don’t get a reply at all. We don’t want to pay so we can be beta testers for the next release when the bugs in
the version we have are not fixed yet.

quote=======================
Thanks again for being there for us.

Sincerely,

Martin Hash

p.s. Ken promises not to make any more provocative statements on the mailing list."

Looks prommising".
End quote=============================

Only looks promising if HASH sends out an email saying
WE UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AND WE WILL FIX IT BEFORE WE RELEASE
THE NEXT VERSION. Also all of you that have been treated badly please stand by and
see if we do what we say we will do.