I just purchased AM 2002/9.5 at this years Consumer Electronics Show. The show “special” was $199. I find it interesting that AM 2003 was apparently out when I purchased 2002. It would appear that if I want to upgrade to the most current version, Hash will get there $299 anyway. I guess they were dumping their old stock to get ready for the new product. :sad:
what the heck is going on with HASH
johnathan
#244
i think the point here is that $199 plus $99 is $298… one dollar under full price.
the larger issue is the subscription model. it keeps revenue flowing, but it also leads to the 9.0 debacle: i paid my $99 to be a beta tester in 2002, but quickly decided not to waste any time. nevertheless, hash got their hunnerd bux.
i just renewed my ‘subscription’ for v10 and i desperately hope that hash can regain my confidence and not force me to learn a new 3d application.
i’m one of the people on the list that’s too opinionated for mr. navone 
but the overall trend i’ve been complaining about is the marketing strategies of both hash and other entrepreneurs: squeeze as much money out of as many marks as possible before people begin to notice they’re not getting what they paid for.
i can live with a:m’s faults as long as i believe that they will soon go away. it’s called faith, and i still have a little bit left.
-jon
vnavone
#246
Originally posted by HellBorn
[B]The AM list acctually have at least one feature that is rare on other list. If you make a post and especially if it is critical in some matter there is an automatic spell correction that kicks in and creates an identical post of your message but with small notes and fill in words.[snip]
Only sad thing is that they not have made them searchable in the knowledge base. It could have been of greate use.
[/B]
[/B]You must be thinking of a different list. The Animaster list has no automatic proofing tools but it DOES have a searchable archive:
BlueCougar
#247
I feel like I’m posting to an AA board, Animation:Master Anonymous…
First, I’m not a kid. I’m in my mid 30’s with a background in fine art and business management. I’ve worked and continue to work in production enviroments. 3 years ago I decided to branch out into 3D. I started using A:M with the '99 version and got started modeling right away using the resources. I got a couple projects laid out on paper then started rigging and smartskinning and getting the scenes together. The upgrades started coming in and I kept up. A year and a half later I was still struggling with bugs and crashes having to do with smartskins, poses, and sliders controlling sliders…etc.
One thing I did realize quickly about the A:M list, don’t make them look bad or you get booted. Keep their secrets from the newbies, talk to them on the side and they’ll help you if they can. I normally called and talked to Steve or one of the software techs. When I did I always took the blame and asked what did I do wrong, or is this something my system is doing. I did this because I knew it was necessary to get what I needed from what I had learned about them from the mailing list. After doing all that then I would ask, after I resolve those issues, is there be anything else that could be an issue, just in case, so I don’t have to call and bother you again. Using this method I usually got an answer to my question. I sent files that would crash my system and they sent them back cleaned up so I could continue working. I learned how to go into character files and tweak them, remove ump-teen empty folders that inflated files sizes to 3+mb and other aspects that would crash the program.
I realized I needed more than what A:M could realistically offer in a production enviroment. If I wanted to piddle aorund for a few more years it was fine. I thank Hash for the opportunity it offered but as its been said, “Even though Porsche designed the VW bug, its still a VW not a Porsche.” The program had a great beginning from what I’ve read and been told, its just the path its followed since that made the difference. A business has to operate as a business, but the one thing they all need is a customer. You alienate your customer for any reason and you compromise your business.
In the end, with all the upgrades and nothing to show for production this past summer I turned to Lightwave. I did this after corresponding with the guys at Anzovins and Eggington and finding out they had moved to it themselves. I moved on. I thank A:M for the experience it offered, I now work twice as fast as most others because the obstacles, that I was accustomed to for almost 2 years, are no longer there. LW is a great program for people who are used to using A:M. I found it the easiest transition for my workflow. My thanks to Martin Hash for his efforts in the past and best wishes to him for the future.
giantkiller
#248
Appreciate your thoughts and your attitude BlueCougar. After all the frustrations and disappointments are aired its just a sad and unfortunate incident. I never got that involved with AM, though I was on the verge of upgrading when this whole thing happened. I can tell that its time to move on. I booted myself off the animaster list. Its getting to be too distracting. I’m leaning toward Lightwave myself.:hmm:
Skevos_Mavros
#249
Originally posted by vnavone
You must be thinking of a different list. The Animaster list has no automatic proofing tools but it DOES have a searchable archive:
I, for one, assumed the other poster was making a funny - referring to having their email quoted and corrected by another user.
PJC
#250
Wow. I’ve used AM since version 5 (I was converted from Alias PA/Maya when v8 came out) and it was a hard deciscion to move away from AM recently.
At my work we have 15 copies of AM. We upgraded to 9. Never used it. It just wasn’t ready for production. 8.5 was okay, but black specks, no multi-processor support etc. and having to render double the size and shrink it down in After Effects just to get decent anti-aliasing sucked.
In the interim, we did a test of our big project this year with Dodge exporting our Hash stuff to Cinema 4D XL7. It was a long process, but well worth it. Better renders? Yes. I was rendering in Cinema, happy with the results and THEN found out I was using the default Anti-aliasing. I switched to “sinc” which is the best, and was even more impressed. Render times from Hash were 10-15 minutes per frame. Cinema 4D was 35 seconds for the same scene. We switched immediatley to Cinema 4D.
Personally, I have been using AM to do digital images for comic books. My first stuff for Image Comics FUSED! was done in AM. I then made the mistake of trying to use v9 for an upcoming comic project. I almost missed an opportunity to do more comic work because I couldn’t get a project done (luckily, the project got pushed back for other reasons). I couldn’t get the thing to RENDER!! Because of software I almost missed out.
I now use Cinema 4D XL 8, and am very impressed with even it’s Character tools. Version 7 was awesome, but had crap character stuff. V8 is real nice. It’s $1800, but worth every penny to make sure I get my project done.
I love AM tho. If it had the renderer and speed and stability of Cinema, I would switch back. AM’s character tools are the BEST.
Support from Steve and the guys has always been wonderful for me, but it just got to a point where they couldn’t figure out (or fix) issues that we had with their software. I was treated very well, but I think it’s time to move on…
…unless v10 or v11 looks good…god it’s like crack…
patrick j. clarke
artfan1
#251
Not sure why I am adding my 2 cents but I wanted to inlcude my experience for others to see.
I am a beginner. Very green in the area of 3D. I too had $300 and a dream and so I invested in AM last April.
My Pentium couldn’t boot it up. It stalled at the Jaydee & Petey screen. So, I contacted Hash direct. They were nice and said, it was my computer, not their software. Well, at the time I was looking for any excuse to get a new computer so I jumped. I wrote them back and said, I was getting a new G4 Mac. No reply.
The Mac arrived and it booted up AM 9.0. YES! But wait, then it crashed. So I called Hash again. The reply? “Why did you buy a Mac?, a PC would have been better and cheaper”. Thanks! They told me that they didn’t have a new enough Mac to repeat my troubles. What? A software company that published to the Mac platform but doesn’t even have a Mac that compairs to the one I bought? My new Mac was actually last years model.
SO, I bought into the ritual of waiting with antisipation for each Friday when a new version was released. I must admit, it was like my birthday each time I got to download the next version. Maybe this one would work. NOPE! So, I waited, maybe the next one would work. NOT!
And all the while, I was learning that most of the cool plugins and fixes were PC only.
I had no manual so I was getting very frustated by the excuse that I must be doing something wrong within the program. I kept hearing that I must be clicking on a button at the wrong time and the software didn’t like that. So to punish me, it would just shut down.
So, now after my first $300 investment, and over $400 in books and videos, I still have a non working program.
The last download that I made was now for a new release. They have quite fixing 9.0 - 9.5 and so I wrote to ask about that. The reply from Hash was, “It is now time to upgrade your software”. But my software never worked. If I wanted an upgrade, it should be because of a cool new feature, or advances in the software. Not because hopefully it might work.
Someone mentioned that there are two sides of the fence. And I agree. In business, the customer is on one side, the supplier is on the otherside. It’s really simple I know. Or at least you would think. The customer gives the supplier money. The supplier gives the cutomer a product for that money. But what about when the product doesn’t work? Ever! If I buy a TV and there is no sound, or picture, I got ripped off. They exchange it for one that works. If I buy a 19" TV that works and then, next year they sell a 25" TV, that is my problem. If I want the bigger TV, I pay. But my 19" TV worked great all along.
With AM, I didn’t get even the 19" TV. It was dead on arrival.
I keep reading about the “glory days” of Hash with version 8.5. And most that have it still use it instead of 9.0. But people who bought this past year, never got that chance. Too bad. I think that Hash should offer a free version of 2003 to all those who bought the 2002 disc. Or at least give a major discount. It’s not that $99 is a lot of money but for the cost of the CD they could make some people happy. That is, if v10 is really that much better. I guess it’s “once bitten, twice shy”.
I for one will most likely ride this out and maybe upgrade next year when I finally see an OSX version (that’s anther long story), but for now, I am putting AM on the shelf and getting to know LW a little by getting the Discovery Edition. Who knows, I might never look back.
By the way, this CGTalk site is great. Way more fun, either way.
Thanks for listening,
artfan1
BlueCougar
#252
A friend of mine has a saying posted in his print shop:
“The temporary sweetness of a low price fades long before the bitterness left by the daily experience of low quality.”
AlwaysL8
#253
Ultimately, as someone who has never used AM before, would I be better off biting the bullet and upgrading to 10 now, or learn
2002, then upgrade? Are there that many changes or improvements in 2003 (10)? :shrug:
Kricket
#254
Originally posted by AlwaysL8
Ultimately, as someone who has never used AM before, would I be better off biting the bullet and upgrading to 10 now, or learn
2002, then upgrade? Are there that many changes or improvements in 2003 (10)? :shrug:
What’s on the cover of your AM CD? you’re sure it’s the 2002? Because the 2003 cd comes with 9.5 on it but allows you to DL v10.
If you’re on 2002 then upgrade to v10. The list of “features” introduced in v10 arent very great … but it IS very stable. Its almost as stable as 8.5.
I was working on a project late last year in 2002/9.5 and it was horrible… nonstop crashes even during rendering. I had to babysit all my renders b/c theyd crash every 15-20 frames. (I got very little sleep) When the v10 betas were released I gave em a try and it was a night/day difference. I still had a few problems like the EMPTYDRIVER syndrome but they were fixed by the end of the betas.
Also a lot of people complained about the new interface so they re-introduced the split Project Workspace/Timeline. (but I still hate those lil arrow things)
Its just taken em some time to get back on track after having rewritten all their code. They’re not the only software company to do this, look at the horror that was XSI 1 and 1.5.
ZPiDER
#255
i think the features added to 10 ARE cool. check out
http://www.hash.com/am2003/
especially stitch is great
http://www.hash.com/am2003/Stitch/index.htm
AlwaysL8
#256
It looks like a gnome smelling a flower and does say 2003 Martin D. Hash on the bottom.
Kricket
#257
Originally posted by AlwaysL8
It looks like a gnome smelling a flower and does say 2003 Martin D. Hash on the bottom.
Thats the 2003 cd, go to Hashs website and DL v10. =)
AlwaysL8
#258
I owe them an apology for thinking that they were selling off old software. I have upgraded to version 10.0b. Of course I still don’t have a clue how to use it. I did notice that when I start 9.5 the libraries are present. When I open 10, there is nothing in the library.
Ben_Lumumba
#259
Originally posted by JTalbotski
[B] Maybe this forum can use the combined knowledge of the users to write up better bug reports that are sent to Steve. That way we can all verify that they know about certain bugs or we can actually prove that it is someone’s system that is the fault. That would be constructive and not A:M worshipping.Here’s hoping,
Jim [/B]
Hi,there
that is okay,bug report
but I think somehow is it okay to pay to be beta tester permanently
I am supposed to do production 90% and maybe software issue 10
and not vice versa ,mainly bug report and project specification the bug occured in …
Kricket
#260
You may need to copy the Library files from the 9.5 install to the v10 directory… Help files too.
To get you up to speed on modeling you should check out the Basic Splinemanship tutorials at http://www.alienlogo.com/tincan/ and the few tutorials in the AM book.