What’s More Impressive? - hard work, final product, both, other


#1

For me personally, it’s very impressive to see final products that are the result of extremely hard work and thought. The work behind the art has always been a contributing factor to my like for an art piece.

What do you think?

If the creation of art in the future becomes a 10 click – 5 minute process, should it be allowed to hold the same prestige or significance as a Monet or a Van Gogh?


#2

beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and there will ALWAYS be ppl out there who will like the 10 click-5 minute work…this isn’t just a computer/technology thing…i know guys who through paint at canvasses in their garage and come out with 20 ‘paintings’ in an afternoon and then go and sell them for £200+ to people who obviously have more money than sense!!!
I certainly like to know more work and thought has gone into something. If someone can create something truly great in a short space of time, though, that’s good too…if it’s truly great…and not just schlok art for the masses…


#3

Originally posted by PHILL_JAMES2000
I certainly like to know more work and thought has gone into something. If someone can create something truly great in a short space of time, though, that’s good too…if it’s truly great…and not just schlok art for the masses…

I agree, however - I tend to have more respect for art that is the result of much thought and hard work. Maybe I’m just being close-minded about the whole thing. I don’t know right now. :shrug:


#4

It depends who’se looking at the work… if a CG artist is looking at another CG artst’s work most likely they will appreciate it far more if they can see the work gone into it… whereas jo bloggs down the road will think it’s amazing without wanting to know how it was done.

Whatever gets the job done, I say.


#5

Personally, I try to judge art by its final result.

Considering that in a museum, cinema or anywhere else where the artist isn’t available to present his work to me personally, under normal conditions I don’t even know exactly how much work was put into a specific product. Sure, in many cases you can feel it and I do appreciate the work put into it, but if I find a quickly done piece to be better… well, then I simply do think it’s better, regardless of the work put into it.
It’s funny when a fellow CG’er comes to me and says “look, I just spent my last 48 sleepless hours to produce this”… but if the result doesn’t merit the time put into it, then was it necessary at all? What if the next guy comes up with an equally mediocre piece he did in five minutes while eating a cake…?

What impresses me a lot more is when a specific piece obviously took a lot of thinking on the artist’s side… when you can actually see, “wow, this has something important to say”… and preferably not in the blatantly obvious way that advertisements tend to. With thinking I also mean when you can see that the artist is a master of his art, has trained for a long time and he just knows what he’s doing and why…

So the work put into a product can impress me, but in the end, what counts is the final piece (for me, anyway!)…


#6

If the creation of art in the future becomes a 10 click – 5 minute process, should it be allowed to hold the same prestige or significance as a Monet or a Van Gogh?

nope…


#7

I think the end result is all that matters…if someone spends a lot of time and care on something, you should be able to see and feel that in the final product without some sad tale of woe from the author.

On the flipside, don’t forget people work at different speeds and skill levels…just because it takes someone 6 months to make something doesn’t mean it’s better than something that took a month…what if it sucks after all that time? It just means that person needs to learn more. There are people who can make a human head in a day that would take others weeks…it’s just how it is.

I don’t think doing the MOST amount of work should necessarily win by default, I think doing the BEST work should, whatever amount you do. If you can do certain things faster and easier, then it just means you can put more layers and detail and visual interest into the final piece. If you can accomplish whatever you intended visually in 10 mins, AND it still looks good and unique to observers, and not like some cookie-cutter piece of crap, then you’ve done what you set out to do. Most of the time this isn’t the case.

Don’t get me wrong, I think it does count, it’s just not the overriding be-all end-all of existence. All things in moderation. The important thing to me also is WHERE the shortcuts are, and if you can see them as an observer…if someone does a piece that’s purely a figure study and all they use is Poser, then you can say “ok, that’s lighting, composition and/or texturing”, but that’s all you take away from the image. If someone does a figure study and it’s all built from scratch, then you look deeper at it and can appreciate their modeling skills too. Same with using downloaded spaceships, animation libraries, or ready-made anything. You have to make it unique from there. And of course if someone represents themselves as having done the entire piece from scratch, and they didn’t, then it takes away from your appreciation of it later when you find out it wasn’t as much work as you thought.

Now from a production standpoint, if something looks good, it looks good, and you’ve got to get the hell on with it…I appreciate crafstmanship, and have been amazed sometimes by “he added all that by hand!”, but if there’s a new plugin or script that will for instance put rivets on your steam ship model automatically, and they don’t look half-assed, am I supposed to give more props to the guy who placed each one by hand, IF the end result looks the same? Odds are he didn’t make his deadline. If for instance the hand placed ones had something special to them that added to the quality of the end image, then it’s worth it…but otherwise it’s just being inefficient.


#8

you can work hard but if you have no clue and your work is ass… then all that hard work means nadda. I say final product.

And I say that only cause they can’t tell how hard you work cause its your own time.(that’s in relation to demo reel). If its in a prod. environment, then they’ll be able to gauge both.

Did you really need to ask?


#9

Yep… hard work is only a merit when the final product is good…
Having said that though, it doesnt mean that the hard work is useless if the final product is less than satisfactory. From a personal gain viewpoint - you are able to learn from that hard work and make improvements in your next project.

Just thought of an example… Say 2 people are taking a maths exam (i’ll use maths cos you can say there is a right and wrong answer - a bit harder to do that with art). Person A studies like crazy and gets 55%, person B waltzes in without much at all and gets 95%… Who did the better job with that? Sure the hard work may have helped person A pass, but B just had a better understanding and was able to put it to good use without as much effort, getting a better result.


#10

It’s funny, because the thing that annoys me is the people who post unverifiable creation times with their work “Creation time: 10 hours.” Then it takes about five months before they post their next project, which makes you wonder why they don’t work all week on something and make it much better. :curious:

-jeremy


#11

theyre too busy posting here…lol


#12

i tend to value the final result the most in other people’s work and hard work in my own.


#13

it depends on what the focus is. as in, if the artwork clearly states it’s about process, then that’s what i appreciate. if that’s not the case then i judge on the final peice… of course if i’m feeling grumpy i may just do whatever i please on that day hehe.


#14

Originally posted by jeremybirn
It’s funny, because the thing that annoys me is the people who post unverifiable creation times with their work “Creation time: 10 hours.”

That really is funny. I’ve always wondered about how close to reality those times are. If I build a full character and an environment, it almost always takes at least 60 hours total… Am I slow or honest? :slight_smile:

That aside - I’d say that the final result is what matters in the end, but if there has been a lot of hard work involved it will certainly shine through and make the result even better. A really stupid audience wouldn’t notice the difference of course.


#15

”If the creation of art in the future becomes a 10 click – 5 minute process, should it be allowed to hold the same prestige or significance as a Monet or a Van Gogh?”

I think I know how I feel about this question now, and the answer is:
NO, I do not think 10 click -– 5 minute pieces should be allowed to share ranks with a Monet or a Van Gogh.

It takes a lot more talent, general knowledge, and brain power to create work from absolute scratch. Almost everyone here knows how to click the refraction button in their render panel, but how many of you can actually paint a refraction on canvas? How many people have the skill to conceive and execute a complete piece from absolute scratch?

The work and talent put into a piece should all be a contributing factor to how a work is received, in my opinion. Talent, knowledge, and brain power deserves a special kind of recognition and praise.


#16

Well, let’s see…if all you’re after is verbal masturbation from your like minded peers only, then the amount of time spent is all that matters, regardless of how useless or boring or nonsensical the final product, for it is ART!:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Cinematography
…If the creation of art in the future becomes a 10 click – 5 minute process…

That’s a b******t argument. It will never be like that. A lot of so-called art I have seen was created in an afternoon, in which case, we have to take in to account the intentions, circumstances and mental state of the artist for the work to have any meaning, apart from looking like that old dropsheet folded up somewhere in my garage.:stuck_out_tongue:

Of course, it’s all completely up to you who you want to impress.

Frankly, I’m sort of glad the 3D industry seems to have stopped quoting enormous rendering times as an attempt to wow the viewers of a “making of” show. As other people have said, there’s no point spending time doing things there’s no reason to, as long as the end result is the same.


#17

the coneptualists would argue this point with you. hey, many of them don’t even do their own artwork at all (Jeff Koons, Bridget Riley etc people continuing the readymades).

Art is in the intent and in the eyes of the beholder.

You can look a a bryce 5 click wonder and think… “crappy, naive”… or you could think “intelligent comment on art”. The thing is, why should you ever know the process?

The art world needs to be ripped into once in a while, the stuffiness, the whole “craft” of it being all that’s worthwhile.

The real question is, do we count what we do as fine art. (or maybe something else, graphic design perhaps… anything more craft related at this point in time).


#18

Judge Drury

”That’s a b******t argument. It will never be like that.

How do you know if art will “never” become a 10 click – 5 minute process? Are you a fortune teller? If you can’t tell me about the kind of technology or programs we will have in the future, you are not in the position to make prejudgments about the future. Think before you type.


#19

:rolleyes: X 10

Well, if you’ve paid any attention at all to the way it all works, you’d know that no matter how advanced tools or methods become, people will take those tools and push them even further and further. EVERYTHING is like that. One guy runs 100 metres in ten seconds. The next guy aims for 9.9 seconds. John Gaeta invents “bullet time”, and everyone else tries to think of something better and more expensive to wow audiences.

So far, I’ve moved from working on a 750MHz machine to a 1GHz to a dual 2.2GHz to a dual 3GHz. My workload has not gone down at all. We do MORE work, because we have a greater ability to do so.

You seem to be only focusing on the bedroom bangers of 3D , and seem to be so preoccupied with how little effort they put into their final renders, clicking on the raytrace/global illumination/caustics button etc.

You can’t compare this to the real 3D/post production industry. Remember watching those cheesy films from the 60’s about how easy dishwashers would make our lives? Yeah, that’s how I can make judgements about the future. Without even quoting Nietzsche.:stuck_out_tongue:


#20

Chill out guys… All of this is purely subjective anyway, you know…