WETA TRIBUTE: Lessons Learned Lets talk (And I do have some concenrs)

#22

thats a big +1 from me on thatā€¦that was my first challenge and i won it and iā€™ve been hankering for a second go aroundā€¦

#23

We only did two of these in '09~ :\

edit: fixed

#24

lol iā€™d completely forgotten about thatā€¦

#25

How about if we do that after The OCEANS?

#26

WOWZER!
Thanks for thatā€¦
I will be following that list closely this year.

-R

#27

Just to clarify, I was talking about not making the challenge too restrictive, nothing about the basemesh. I enjoy it being hard. :smiley:

#28

thatā€™d be awesomeā€¦

#29

Ok lets make the list unique this time for the 30 days 30 models
Any ideas?

#30

Fire Hydrant
Human Head
Frog/toad
Computer mouse
Michael Jackson Jacket (the red one with the zippers)
Toy Car
Gun

I got lots more but Iā€™ll give everyone a chance to reply :slight_smile:

-rage

#31

digital camera
game controller (ie dualshock 3, 360 controller, wii remote, N64 controller etc etc)
piano
iron (manā€¦lol)
hand
foot
printer
guitar
laptop
pen
vacuum cleaner
human
dog
cat
helicopter
boat
space shuttle
potplant
tv
lamp

some of them are pretty generic thoughā€¦lolā€¦

one last thing about the basemesh issueā€¦how about this? basemeshes are allowed, you can either choose to use them or opt not toā€¦if you use one you have to say so in your WIP and final entryā€¦and then if people are so inclined as to vote down someone who used one they can if they wantā€¦
i see basemeshes as a tool and its not the tools that make an artist, its what they do with themā€¦

#32

I may have a compromise for the base mesh issue.
If you use a base mesh your entry would be able to run for any category on the voting thread, but it would not qualify for the Best model of the challenge.

#33

I guess Roberto really made his point. If anyone use a premade base model that should not be elegiblefor the best model entry. I partecipate to HCM since competition 4., Iā€™m not a pro and I know my limits. Iā€™m fast modelling architectural and props, and I love detailing it, while for me it take ages to make a correct base mesh for human (with correct topo), that why I try to partecipate to HCM in organic and I always not finish oneā€¦ but this is also the way I will learn (I hope, one of my favorite quote is Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm

so I guess to improve and hone skills alwaysā€¦
About the texture also that has been a Issueā€¦ for me the best will be

  • mesh from start
  • no texture in final
  • just a clay
  • the most WIP the better

this not ensure people from cheating (for example I can post different subdivision of a model I alredy have or old WIP), but that can be a startā€¦ I donā€™ like cheating neither people that cheat

if really people want to use a basic model that should be THE SAME for everyone, like in the lighting challenge. We have one scene and we apply texture+lights etc.
Also lately the forum is becomeing too much ā€œcompetitiveā€. Come on guys is to have fun.

Just my two cents, and as always thanks to Roberto for being the host :slight_smile:

#34

Iā€™ve only done one of these challenges, but here goes.

Base mesh I have mixed thoughts. Probably should be adjusted per challenge - working of a list or concepts maybe the base should be started from scratch since you know what you should be making, whereas a more free topic (make whatever you want from this topic) would benefit from a quick starting point that you could retopo later on.

If I was working on something human or could use a human starting point and base meshes werent allowed then I would start from a sphere or Zsphere/sketch(I hate redoing human base meshes). Where would this stand in the rules? Really they are just computer generated bases that Iā€™m pulling and pushing to get what I want.

I think with the beauty render, textures and good lighting should be allowed. Its very important to display your models properly and know afew quick setups to do that, so this is good practice imoā€¦ This is a modelling challenge tho and I can understand why some people dont want itā€¦ was looking forward to experimenting with some fishy like shaders in the next challenge :stuck_out_tongue:

Anyway, hope it stays fun and not too strict :slight_smile:

#35

I definitely disagree with that, simply because you want people to just your modeling alone. If you wanted to do a good render with textures, then by all means go ahead and do that - but donā€™t post it on the final entry page (unfair advantage).

#36

I think the base mesh issue is something that needs to be either, allowed or not allowed. There is no compromise. Having some models eligible for certain awards and other models not, would get way too confusing for voters. To me, hardcore modeling means just that. Hardcore. Which means no base mesh to start. Also, modeling does not include textures and nothing more than just a basic 3-point light set-up. You could even take some examples from the material websites like MR Materials or Vray Materials and require everyone to use a stock studio for the model presentation. This way everyone has the same lighting, and same set-up and each model can be judged on the model only. This isnā€™t the texturing challenge or the lighting challenge. Now, if you wanted to rename this to the Hardcore Everything challenge, then you could include textures and custom light rigs.

Personally, I think this needs to be a command decision from only Roberto. He runs the challenge, he makes the rules. The base mesh issue, as well as the other issues, cannot be solved by committee as the opinions are far too varied. So just make a decision, yes or no. No matter what you do you are going to piss some people off. If you say Yes to base meshes, youā€™ll lose some people. If you say No to base meshes, youā€™ll lose some people. You simply canā€™t please everyone. So just grab these challenges by the ho-joeā€™s and lay the law down.

#37

I can understand that, textures would make it harder to judge the modelling alone. Still think the beauty render should be alittle bit more creative - do something with the lighting and composition.

Whatever Roberto decides for the final is fine with me :stuck_out_tongue: Like you said, you can always do what ever you like and post it in the Wip thread for CnC.

cheers.

#38

Surely the base mesh thing is besides the point of the two real basic undertakings of a good modeller: Form/Art/Design Outcomes and Topology/Technical/Functional Outcomes.

I like CG society because thereā€™s a balance between common oppositional opinion platforms like the Industry-Time-is-Money vs. Beauty-for-its-Own-Sake debate, or the By-The-Book-No-NGons-Topo vs. Whatever-Works-For-The-Final-Image debate.

I think itā€™s the site of conflict thatā€™s so important, rather than any individual platform, because it helps ferment peoples opinions and drive discussion.

We vote democratically here too by a panel of peers. If a certain method of presenting your meshes serves to enhance your vote then that too is something you can learn from the forums. In life if you ignore a critical analysis of what other people do to succeed then you are only setting yourself up for disappointment. It is a good thing that there is more to learn here than just topology.

In this light I think it would be sad to see sculpting or use of base meshes become some frowned upon tool, or vice-versa, in a place where learning and enjoyment are the fundamental rewards for all involved.

By all means add new voting categories (where appropriate) to encourage people to explore things such as new takes on base topology for the human male form, Iā€™m all for challenging people, but by making it compulsory weā€™d only be estranging part of the community who drive us to better results.

or like, thatā€™s what i think :slight_smile:

#39

I think cutting the voting categories down to three possiblities.
Hardcore Model
Beauty Render
Best Project

The HM would be the best model, with a standard setup that is downloadable, podium, lights and basic backing. Everybody can enter this, and has to use the default setup to position their grey model in.

Beauty can come after the restrictions of the HM are met, where you can take your HM and texture and light it. It is still rendered on the podium with basic backing but your allowed to texture the podium, this includes displacement.

Best project would be one that encompasses everything that one would expect to see. Concepts, original base mesh build, sculpting, posing, texturing, lighting, render passes and Final output.

This takes everything into consideration and I think there should be 3 winners in every challenge instead of one.

#40

I think cutting the voting categories down to three possiblities.
Hardcore Model
Beauty Render
Best Project

i like the idea of a best project award (its kind of the WIP award but sounds betterā€¦lol) and the beauty render one as well, but as always i have a few thoughts:

the ā€˜beautyā€™ renders can include texturing but only:

  • displacement maps
  • bump/normal maps
  • spec maps

no diffuse maps, as the idea is to show off the modeling. nsb illustrated it perfectly

thatā€™s a kick ass beauty render and thereā€™s not a diffuse map in sight, it survives on the modeling and presentation aloneā€¦

#41

I disagree with a downloadable default light setup and podium. The only reason is that not every model can be best shown with the same setup. As an example, I use Modo and the rendering engine (especially lights) relies heavily on real world scale and physics. If you have a toy car with a light rig, then use that same light rig for, say, a person, it isnā€™t a simple matter of scaling up the light rig. You scale up a light by 100%, and itā€™ll be a100% more intense. If you scale down the human, the light wonā€™t have the power to illuminate all the details.

Also, the podium should be something that fits with the model. I wouldnā€™t want to display my sea turtle on an escalator :slight_smile:

I would be down with a traditional 3 point setup, though, that we could show as a screenshot if it were required.

-rage