Water drops on glas object / Bottle problem

#1

Hey guys

Consider this situation.

Imagine you have water drop particle on an object ( glass / bottle)

Like in Allan Mck. tutorial the water drops should run along the surface
but with one important difference.

The water drop particle ( blobmesh / pwrapper ) should not penetrate the
glass / bottle object.

If that happens i get heavy render artifacts while rendering.
In other words - you can see / recognize that the drops are not correct.
Is there a possibility to do that without any fancy plugin?

The particle must stick only to the glass surface and penetrate it.
Right now im doing stills - therefore i can do some boolean operation
(Subtract glass minus drops) and it is really a pain the ass.

But the next step is to do some animation.

Any hints are appreciated.

regards

NAIK

#2

can you post a pic with the artifacts your getting, are they black?
what do they look like?
What render are you using?
does your bottle have thickness?
Do you have enough trace depth for the glass material?
Are you rendering pwrapper / blob mesh at a higher rendering setting?

#3

You can apply “Push” modifier on emitter glass object. and push it till blobmesh doesn’t penetrate and stick to original glass.

#4

hey guys

can you post a pic with the artifacts your getting, are they black?

–> I can post a picture later, but yeah the artifacts are mostly black
just imagine you got a cylinder and a sphere which is half in the cylinder.
then both materials got some kind of glass / water material (reflection / refraction etc)
Im talking about this kind of artifacts - it is absolutely clear why these artifacts appear.
The drops should not penetrate the glass object.
The fact that i render that shot in min 8000K will make these artifacts visible buddy.

What render are you using?

–> 3dsmax 2010 Mental Ray - Arch / Design Material

does your bottle have thickness?

–> of course the bottle / glass got thickness

Do you have enough trace depth for the glass material?

–> absolutely - as i mentioned before - it is the problem that the drops (blobmesh)
are penetrating the glass / bottle Object

Are you rendering pwrapper / blob mesh at a higher rendering setting?

–> Yes very high setting

I hope you get what i mean mate…

@ jigu

Thats not so easy - First when i apply the push modifier to the glass object
which is also the emitter will get me nowhere -
The Push modifier is at first the simplest way but not working good, because it ifluences
the whole mesh and not a specific area.

Imagine you got a glass window and one big water drop running on that along.
When you look at it from the side ( profile ) then the outer side of the drop
got some sphere look (convex) and the other side of the drop (glass - water drop side)
is almost flat sticking at the glass.

That is what i need… I know its not easy…

#5

I had this type of issue before if i remember, I converted pwrapper to mesh object using mesher. and on mesh I applied FFD to flatten other side of drops to flatten on glass surface. It worked a bit.

#6

Yeah jigu - thats what i thought too - but its really a hassle.
I got some hundreds different drops and the glass object is also not a standard one
which makes it almost impossible to solve that issue manually.

And when i want to make an animation with some drops running down along
the glass object this method is not going to work anymore.

I must admit - that im a bit surprised - For me it seems that is not possible with Pflow
and without any decent plugin like Realflow or glu3d - but im not a Pflow expert
so perhaps some profs can tell me more.

Also this hasnt been discussed on any Pflow Dvd as i know - which makes me wonder
and simultaneeously make me think that this task is really a heavy one.

But maybe im wrong.

regards

NAIK

#7

we are doing a very similar shot as well for work at the moment, I set up all the particle flows for animation.I am using pwrapper instead of blobmesh, the particles ARE penetrating, but the glass material is hiding it just fine. We are a Vray studio so I’m thinking that it might be a material problem thats causing you artifacts, Glass will natural refract and bend the sides.

Also are you using box#1? and using the lock/bond operator? thats what i am using for partical placment.

8000k images seems a bit over kill, cant imagin what you need that size for

here is a picture of our material tests
http://www.dznd.net/Webpics/Beer.jpg

#8

hey buddy -

thanks for the image.

we are doing a very similar shot as well for work at the moment, I set up all the particle flows for animation.I am using pwrapper instead of blobmesh, the particles ARE penetrating, but the glass material is hiding it just fine. We are a Vray studio so I’m thinking that it might be a material problem thats causing you artifacts, Glass will natural refract and bend the sides.

Also are you using box#1? and using the lock/bond operator? thats what i am using for partical placment.

8000k images seems a bit over kill, cant imagin what you need that size for

Right now im using Pwrapper too - Blobmesh is so ridiculous slow.
I think all the Box #1 Operators are inside Max 2010 right?
Yeah i know the Lock Bond operator - right now im just using the Icon object operator -
seems to work fine too - what do you think?

Yeah maybe i have to tweak the material of the glas or the drops.
Its funny mate because my shots are looking almost the same but in my shot i got perhaps 30 times more dew drops and the reason for
8000K rendering is for commercial use ( print mostly )
therefore we have to render that shot so big… otherwise you could not see
the artifacts - as far as possible i will upload an image so that you can see what i mean.

Furthermore the beer color we have goes more into the orange yellow colorrange - so if there are render artifacts they will be more obvious i think.

Nevertheless - i will see how far i come - because i dont think to solve that penetration
problem as far as possible.

regards

NAIK

#9

yea box#1 is integrated with 2010,
defiantly go for lock/bond operator when animating the drips.

set the the lock/bond operator to “lock to surface” checked the “snap to surface box”
In the position Lock/Bond part:check “restrict to surface” set force to 0 and put dampening to “Both” and set some friction/resistance/speed this should give you a good drip animation.

#10

I second that. I was also working on project with drops on bottle, but my client decided to stop the job. I was also using vray and it was looking nice, now I was playing with bercon metaballs and its really great, you should try if you’re using vray. :wink:

#11

hey guys -

i will try the lock bond operator - for sure - sounds promising.

@3dmadness

Yeah buddy i have heard about bercons metaballs - but im using Mental Ray :wink:

I will try that - post an image as far as possible.
Maybe i can kill the artifacts of the drops by using single sided material
Arch/Design thin walled function instead of a solid one.

Still im a little bit surprised that attaching the drops with pwrapper / blobmesh
with Pflow is not able to do that task im looking for ( not penetrating the glass / bottle)
Maybe i will find a workaround.

regards

NAIK

#12

Hey Naik, since you’re using mray and vrayblob is out of question, have you increased the reflection and refrection depth? Maybe the black artifact can be a low depth.

#13

hey mate -

right now im not in front of my scene - but i remember that my depth settings
were high - but i will test it definately again.

the prob is that by a 8K rendering you see almost everything -
and if the blobmesh drops penetrate the glass - im quite sure that you will
always see that effect no matter how high the depth settings are.
Maybe im wrong buddy - but i will test it tonight and post an image
in order to show you the effect im talking about.

regards

NAIK

#14

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